A&H

OFFINABUS towards AR

OnlyUseMeWhistle

OnlyUseMeWhistle

RefChat Addict
Level 4W Referee
When I'm running the line I try to match my tolerance to the Referee's as much as possible, including for dissent/offinabus.

Had a moment in a game yesterday, referee has a high tolerance for dissent and physicality compared to me (they are a 4, I'm a 7), so I have been matching that no problems.

At one point a player is right in front of me, believes they are fouled but I don't flag because they weren't from my view. He responds with "You're a ****house" and then "**** you" twice.

I've told the ref it's dissent for me and the ref has a strong word using stepped approach, this is based on the bar set for dissent so far in the game.

If I was in the middle he'd be gone for offinabus but didn't want to make life harder for the ref in the middle by having a different bar, was this right?
 
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Did you tell the ref what was said, or just that it was dissent for you?

Either way, that's pretty poor from the ref. If you've told him it's dissent, he should be issuing the appropriate punishment for dissent and sin binning. And if you've told him the words used, he should be recognising that as at least sin bin worthy even with a "high tolerance" (don't get me started on that!)
 
OnlyUseMeWhistle said:
When I'm running the line I try to match my tolerance to the Referee's as much as possible, including for dissent/offinabus.

Had a moment in a game yesterday, referee has a high tolerance for dissent and physicality compared to me (they are a 4, I'm a 7), so I have been matching that no problems.

At one point a player is right in front of me, believes they are fouled but I don't flag because they weren't from my view. He responds with "You're a ****house" and then "**** you" twice.

I've told the ref it's dissent for me and the ref has a strong word using stepped approach, this is based on the bar set for dissent so far in the game.

If I was in the middle he'd be gone for offinabus but didn't want to make life harder for the ref in the middle by having a different bar, was this right?
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I would quote the words used and what i would expect to happen.
 
You shouldn't be telling the referee what the outcome should be, just what the words used were.

Going back many years but in a contrib game I called the referee over for words shouted at me, I told him exactly what was said and after a discussion he went with yellow which I was happy with. The away club reported it to the FA, the referee was charged and subsequently suspended for 3 weeks, I received a written warning, the argument being that I had told the referee the exact words used so it was down to him to deal with it.
 
RustyRef said:
You shouldn't be telling the referee what the outcome should be, just what the words used were.

Going back many years but in a contrib game I called the referee over for words shouted at me, I told him exactly what was said and after a discussion he went with yellow which I was happy with. The away club reported it to the FA, the referee was charged and subsequently suspended for 3 weeks, I received a written warning, the argument being that I had told the referee the exact words used so it was down to him to deal with it.
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What did you to warrant a warning? Seems unfair.
 
RustyRef said:
You shouldn't be telling the referee what the outcome should be, just what the words used were.

Going back many years but in a contrib game I called the referee over for words shouted at me, I told him exactly what was said and after a discussion he went with yellow which I was happy with. The away club reported it to the FA, the referee was charged and subsequently suspended for 3 weeks, I received a written warning, the argument being that I had told the referee the exact words used so it was down to him to deal with it.
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Just to clarify, it was a home team player that was abusive and the away team reported it because they felt he should have been dismissed?
 
Reminds me of a game after I retired from regular appointments but helped out by running the line at local clubs when our Supply League were short.
I was approached (from around 50 metres away) by the away team captain, who called me a "f*****g cheat" because I had signalled for a free kick to the home team rather than an away team penalty - the away player was hurt as he fell, so there was a stoppage in play.
I requested the referee's presence, and said "Blue 5, the captain, just ran towards me and called me a f*****g cheat"
The (Level 4) referee said "Oh! Do you want me to book him?"
I said "That's up to you. If I was the referee he would be sent off, but it's obviously your call"
With almost apologetic body language he sent the captain off.
After the game, the referee told me he would have cautioned the player had I not suggested the dismissal.
The captain appealed the decision, which was upheld by the commission.
 
RustyRef said:
You shouldn't be telling the referee what the outcome should be, just what the words used were.

Going back many years but in a contrib game I called the referee over for words shouted at me, I told him exactly what was said and after a discussion he went with yellow which I was happy with. The away club reported it to the FA, the referee was charged and subsequently suspended for 3 weeks, I received a written warning, the argument being that I had told the referee the exact words used so it was down to him to deal with it.
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I completely understand the idea of what you're saying, but equally, I don't see how the referee can decide what is offensive to his AR. For things that are borderline between OFFINABUS and dissent, I'd usually opt for dissent, but I wouldn't want my AR to deem that I haven't considered their opinion.
 
RefereeX said:
I completely understand the idea of what you're saying, but equally, I don't see how the referee can decide what is offensive to his AR. For things that are borderline between OFFINABUS and dissent, I'd usually opt for dissent, but I wouldn't want my AR to deem that I haven't considered their opinion.
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I agree - in an ideal world, our OP would have said something like "this player said X, Y and Z, and I considered that dissent/OFFINABUS". I get the impression from the post that it was either/or though, so assuming the ref didn't clarify the required action, we do have to consider how the referee would have taken it.
 
GraemeS said:
I agree - in an ideal world, our OP would have said something like "this player said X, Y and Z, and I considered that dissent/OFFINABUS". I get the impression from the post that it was either/or though, so assuming the ref didn't clarify the required action, we do have to consider how the referee would have taken it.
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I sort of had in my mind that he may have had those words aimed at him in the game already and if I suddenly lower his bar for OFFINABUS, I am making his life harder and not "assisting"
 
Which is exactly why I hate running a line for a ref who thinks he has a "high tolerance"! All it means is no call after no call followed by eventually having enough and giving a foul or booking that no one expects. And as an AR, you can never know when that "high tolerance" will suddenly randomly drop, so its impossible to go along with.
 
GraemeS said:
Which is exactly why I hate running a line for a ref who thinks he has a "high tolerance"! All it means is no call after no call followed by eventually having enough and giving a foul or booking that no one expects. And as an AR, you can never know when that "high tolerance" will suddenly randomly drop, so its impossible to go along with.
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To be fair to this middle, he was very consistent and I don't actually think he got anything clearly wrong from where I was stood.
 
Start of this season I learnt an important lesson when being abused on the line (dug-out side where most came from a manager) …..

If there’s an Assessor present than the bar is 'normal' / low.

If there’s no Assessor, then the bar is high.

Assessor Marks v. Club Marks 😊
 
Kent Ref said:
What did you to warrant a warning? Seems unfair.
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The argument was that the language used should have been a mandatory red card.

Also didn't help that the club secretary of the away team was on the league committee and also an FA official. We couldn't dispute what they had reported as that would have been committing career suicide, so we had to take it on the chin.
 
RefereeX said:
I completely understand the idea of what you're saying, but equally, I don't see how the referee can decide what is offensive to his AR. For things that are borderline between OFFINABUS and dissent, I'd usually opt for dissent, but I wouldn't want my AR to deem that I haven't considered their opinion.
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That's pretty much what I'm saying. In my example the referee asked me what I thought the sanction should be, and I said caution as I wasn't really offended by it, and I also said something like "it hadn't been that kind of game to merit a red card". The point I was making is the AR shouldn't be calling the referee over and determining the outcome, for example saying something like "red card to yellow 10", rather he needs to explain what was said and they can have a discussion about the sanction if necessary.
 
RustyRef said:
explain what was said and they can have a discussion about the sanction if necessary
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Totally agree with this. AR's are called assistants for a reason. They aren't there to make decisions, they are there to help with them.
 
RustyRef said:
That's pretty much what I'm saying. In my example the referee asked me what I thought the sanction should be, and I said caution as I wasn't really offended by it, and I also said something like "it hadn't been that kind of game to merit a red card". The point I was making is the AR shouldn't be calling the referee over and determining the outcome, for example saying something like "red card to yellow 10", rather he needs to explain what was said and they can have a discussion about the sanction if necessary.
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I learnt this valuable lesson whilst a L4 ref. In stoppage time, my female assistant called me over and told me that she had been given clear dissent by a defender regarding an offside call. I called the player over, showed him a second yellow and the game continued. End of the game, Observer super happy with team performance, including the send off. High mark incoming. He then asks the assistant exactly what was said and it becomes clear that the words were in reality sexist and therefore should have been clear OFFINABUS. Disaster for both of us and clear lesson learnt ... the AR's job is to be clear about what s(he) has seen or heard and then the referee needsto decide the outcome (with further input from AR if asked for).
 
If you're offended, insulted or abused you should be telling the referee that.

'He offended me by calling me xxxx '

Up to the referee to do what he wants with that information.



@N416405 Don't think not dealing with dissent or offensive language is always going to help club marks, very often it's quite the opposite.
 
Exactly. Best course of action is to explain what is said and what offence you consider it to be - in most cases the ref can just go with that, but in rare exceptions where the AR may have an unreasonably high bar or may not realise the implications of what was said, the ref needs to have all relevant info in order to ensure the AR isn't downplaying it.
 
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