A&H

Arsenal v Swansea

This was a kick to the leg for me and no possiblity or intent on playing the ball.


New law 12 clause:
In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.
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When not challenging for the ball, the definition of VC, albeit for striking one’s head, lowers the force needed for it to be considered excessive or brutality. So I can see why a red can be considered here based on that.

Having said that I still think this is a yellow card but if there ever was an orange card, this would be it.
 
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YC for me. Xhaka has been done on reputation here.
There is so little contact, whether you class it as a trip or kick is not relevant I think.
If he scythes and/or makes more contact and/or takes both legs and/or has higher feet, more force etc... but not here...
 
one said:
This was a kick to the leg for me and no possiblity or intent on playing the ball.


New law 12 clause:

When not challenging for the ball, the definition of VC, albeit for striking one’s head, lowers the force needed for it to be considered excessive or brutality. So I can see why a red can be considered here based on that.

.
Click to expand...
That would make every single late or off-the-ball foul a potential red.
 
"On the head or face with the hand or arm"

If you strike somebody on the head with your arm off the ball it's absolutely clear that your intention is to cause them harm: that is the definition of violence. If you trip the player who is in possession of the ball causing him to fall over, even if the ball is out of reach, you cannot be clear at all that the intention is to harm the other player. It's at least a likely that the intention is to stop the attack.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
That would make every single late or off-the-ball foul a potential red.
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Would make games so much easier, from the standard of football in my area 99% of games on a Sunday morning would he abandoned due to either one or both teams lacking the required number of players.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
That would make every single late or off-the-ball foul a potential red.
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Every single foul is a 'potential' red (irrelevant of late or off the ball). How you determined if it is a 'definite' red (change potential to definite) is based on measures of excessive force and all that.

What I am saying is my measures for excessive force are loosened a little when it comes to deliberate late or off the ball fouls (some people like to refer to them as dirty play).
 
DISCLAIMER:
Moderators,
My reference to the word 'dirty' in the above post is in the context of a game, fouls and the intent of the offender in the foul. Please don't delete my post or close the thread on the advice of a forumite who misinterprets the post because he doesn't like me. :D
 
one said:
Every single foul is a 'potential' red (irrelevant of late or off the ball). How you determined if it is a 'definite' red (change potential to definite) is based on measures of excessive force and all that.

What I am saying is my measures for excessive force are loosened a little when it comes to deliberate late or off the ball fouls (some people like to refer to them as dirty play).
Click to expand...

I understand your point, but I think Wenger even said that, under the laws as they are, a 'dark yellow' cannot magically become a red without excessive force. To my understanding, the definition of 'excessive force' is limited to how the tackle was administered in the moment, regardless of the other factors that you mention. There probably is a correlation between fouls that are reckless (deliberate, off the ball) and those that are dangerous (endangering safety of the opponent), but we shouldn't blend the two categories.
 
Yellow. You can sell a red... But I'd be cautioning here and the player would be on an incredibly short leas for the remainder of the game. It's a kick in an attempt to trip the player to stop a promising attack. Honestly, if I sent off every player than I see doing this type of thing in games I officiate in, I recon I'd have 2-3 sending off every game!

I think you can sell it as a red cover it in glitter to make your case more viable... But I would personally caution here due to the position on the field and the position of the remaining defenders.
 
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