A&H

Persistent infringement

G

Graham Carter

New Member
Evening all,

I wondered whether any of you had any tips/tricks for remembering players that continue to infringe the laws of the game? Its something that I've always struggled with and my main weakness that has to be improved.

I've often spoken to my father at half time when he's watching my games when he's said "green no. 6 has had 3 fouls, you should have at least had a word by now, red no. 7 is on 2 fouls" etc. I'm sometimes completely oblivious to players that have committed multiple offences.

Is this something anyone else has struggled with? I think its because I'm concentrating so much on actually recognising the fouls I sort of 'blank out' previous offences.

Thanks in advance!
 
The Referee Store
No secret to it, you'll improve with experience, but don't look for unnecessary cards, use the stepped approach, word in his ear, word with his captain, raised voice warnings, if it persists then he's asking for it. Sadly, certain players do stand out whether they like it or not. probably count on two hands how many times I've booked for this, usually its one on its own that tips the card radar.
 
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Like SF says, it comes with experience. It also comes with noting the number or a characteristic of the person committing the offence, for example a distinctive hairstyle, boot colour, position on the field, hair colour, facial hair but also positioning can help and a willingness to step in before the card (as mentioned by my venerable Blade above).
 
I gave what I think is only my second ever card for genuine PI this weekend - and even then, I could probably have sold a yellow for a reckless tackle alone on the one that finally got him in the book.

The player in question was the left-back, and it was the shear number of fouls in this position that got my attention in the first place. After I'd had a word with him, he was well on my radar - so even though the tackle that got him cautioned happened when he found himself in the middle of the pitch, I knew his shirt number and his rough appearance by then.
 
I've never actually cautioned for PI, but I agree this is something I worry about when more than one player is on a booking; the dreaded mistaken identity and all that.
There are often characteristics that leap out at you, but as others have suggested, position on the field is also a very good point. When I think about close calls for PI, which a reckless tackle has obviated, a high proportion happen in wide areas. It would be interesting to see professional statistics on this in terms of most frequent/earliest cautions, but I get a sense referees are drawn slightly more to players on the margins of the pitch. You have perhaps a bit more positional consistency in those wide areas, whereas in youth football especially central players circulate.
 
@GraemeS has just passed me in the fast lane. I have only had to do PI once and it was just a big, slow CB who couldn't keep up and kept fouling. Midway through the second it was almost hilarious to everyone so it was an easy PI. Other times I have been tracking a player (as @Brian Hamilton says you end up marking them somehow in your mind either by position or physical attribute) and they end up being tired and delivering a reckless tackle which makes it easy for eveyone....with that yellow they get scared and play more conservative on the fouls.
 
In addition to the points about position and physical attributes, saying the shirt number in your head can help (e.g. "foul by red 7"). For me, that helps to trigger my memory when I say it again later in the match ... cue time for a word with the player.

I use the same technique if I want to go back and caution someone after an advantage. I talk to myself a lot :)
 
I nearly failed with PI many years ago. I unknowingly had identical twins playing, I carded the first one with a sludge tackle (orange), he was on a big warning to behave, a bit later, his brother did a cardable foul so luckily it was pointed out to me before i went purely on looks! and second yellowed him!! Phew!!! So, in the game they both got one!!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I nearly failed with PI many years ago. I unknowingly had identical twins playing, I carded the first one with a sludge tackle (orange), he was on a big warning to behave, a bit later, his brother did a cardable foul so luckily it was pointed out to me before i went purely on looks! and second yellowed him!! Phew!!! So, in the game they both got one!!
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Ditto.......was on the point of pulling out the cherry when I clocked the 'alternative' forename......checked the team sheet to make sure!
 
The other one to think about is the persistent fouling of one or two particular players. Happens where a team identifies their biggest threat and tries to knock them out of the game by sharing the fouls amongst themselves.
 
Paul March said:
The other one to think about is the persistent fouling of one or two particular players. Happens where a team identifies their biggest threat and tries to knock them out of the game by sharing the fouls amongst themselves.
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Had a 'International' game with this, classy white striker was being constantly fouled by a mainly black team, (I knew most of them well), but not the same player doing the fouling, nothing serious but it was obviously a tactic. He moaned and moaned and moaned. He thought it was the same player but it wasn't. Second half he absolutely flipped and violently pushed away one of the foulees and got his marching orders from myself. They were in stitches because the tactic had worked! Ironically we had an injury in both halves, (one ambulance on pitch), and the white team walked off for a period claiming that they 'feared for their safety' its the only game where I've had 15+ minutes injury time in both halves. I needed some overtime!!!
 
Most of my cards in youth football have been for persistent infringement, possibly because they are/were used to getting away with it with club officials (parents/managers etc)/official refs who don't card at that level.

In my last youth game, carded 2 players from the same team, first of which was for P.I. I guess in this instance, keeping track of the serial offender was relatively easy about 90% of the fouls (mostly petty, nothing malicious) in the game up until that point were committed by the same team and of those by that team were mostly by the same player.
 
Hav
Sheffields Finest said:
Had a 'International' game with this, classy white striker was being constantly fouled by a mainly black team, (I knew most of them well), but not the same player doing the fouling, nothing serious but it was obviously a tactic. He moaned and moaned and moaned. He thought it was the same player but it wasn't. Second half he absolutely flipped and violently pushed away one of the foulees and got his marching orders from myself. They were in stitches because the tactic had worked! Ironically we had an injury in both halves, (one ambulance on pitch), and the white team walked off for a period claiming that they 'feared for their safety' its the only game where I've had 15+ minutes injury time in both halves. I needed some overtime!!!
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Having watched United Chelsea the other week, we are all aware that you can use the stepped approach and caution for this (different players targeting the same player repeatedly)...yes?
 
santa sangria said:
Hav

Having watched United Chelsea the other week, we are all aware that you can use the stepped approach and caution for this (different players targeting the same player repeatedly)...yes?
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Is that correct in Law though? Does it mention team fouls, it certainly mentions individual fouls?

PI relates to a player not a team!
 
Targetting a single player like in the Manchester United v Chelsea game is sanctioned as Unsporting Behaviour.

From Mr. Elleray himself (via the law enquiries email):
David Elleray said:
Referees have always been told to look out for a team tactic where different players foul the same opponent.

The advice is that the captain is warned then the next player can be cautioned not for persistent misconduct but for unsporting behaviour.
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Yes, if a team appears to be targeting a particular player- you would use the stepped approach as early as you can - let the captain know you are aware of what appears to be going on and that you are close to cautioning ( remember we shouldn't say we will caution the next one- if it innocuous you may have issues if you don't caution) I would also let the captain of the targeted player that you are on it- will save them getting on your back- same rule applies about telling them next one.

Messi has been subject to this treatment most of his career. Was Reals tactics with the defenders taking turns.
 
AlexF said:
Targetting a single player like in the Manchester United v Chelsea game is sanctioned as Unsporting Behaviour.

From Mr. Elleray himself (via the law enquiries email):
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Is that the same David Elleray who is alleged to have been heard to say “you looked rather tanned” and ask “have you been down a coal mine?” to McCarthy. The FA says it investigated the incident but the former housemaster at Harrow School has escaped serious punishment, instead being asked to undertake an equality and diversity training course.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Is that the same David Elleray who is alleged to have been heard to say “you looked rather tanned” and ask “have you been down a coal mine?” to McCarthy. The FA says it investigated the incident but the former housemaster at Harrow School has escaped serious punishment, instead being asked to undertake an equality and diversity training course.
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What relevance does that have in any way at all to the discussion here about persistent infringement?
 
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