A&H

Advantage woe

Easy solution to all advantage related troubles.......don't play it unless someone is about to slot the ball into an empty net.

The more you go looking for opportunities to play advantage the bigger mess you'll get into. If there is any shred of a doubt in your mind about whether its "advantage" or not.....it's not.
The most genuine advantages are obvious and easy to spot.......anything else is an opportunity for a ref to guess, pray, hope and ultimately get themselves in a mess 90% of the time.
 
The Referee Store
Padfoot said:
Easy solution to all advantage related troubles.......don't play it unless someone is about to slot the ball into an empty net.

The more you go looking for opportunities to play advantage the bigger mess you'll get into. If there is any shred of a doubt in your mind about whether its "advantage" or not.....it's not.
The most genuine advantages are obvious and easy to spot.......anything else is an opportunity for a ref to guess, pray, hope and ultimately get themselves in a mess 90% of the time.
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Unsurprisingly, I think this is terrible advice. Players know that advantage is a thing, they will often expect you to apply it and will often get annoyed when an opportunity to play advantage is missed - particularly if they feel they are less likely to score from a set piece than a flowing attack with opponents out of position.

Of course it's possible to get it wrong, but I don't think that should be a reason not to try and use it. It's possible to get a penalty or red card decision wrong as well, but you're not going to go very far as a referee if you don't use those powers. For me, the same applies to advantage.
 
GraemeS said:
Unsurprisingly, I think this is terrible advice. Players know that advantage is a thing, they will often expect you to apply it and will often get annoyed when an opportunity to play advantage is missed - particularly if they feel they are less likely to score from a set piece than a flowing attack with opponents out of position.

Of course it's possible to get it wrong, but I don't think that should be a reason not to try and use it. It's possible to get a penalty or red card decision wrong as well, but you're not going to go very far as a referee if you don't use those powers. For me, the same applies to advantage.
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Yes and no. Of course I agree. But...
Monday night: 4 poor advantages, all rushed, in front of an observer
Tuesday night: one great advantage, brilliantly timed, in 1 degree sleet
...of course, Tuesday night's was much much easier, more space, easier game context...

That's what I come back to: congestion and game context.

As well as the pontification and timing, I am reminded that you have to consider game context during pontification (is it an advantage if the team would rather stop play, how long to play, possession football vs long ball etc.). And that advantage is much much less likely in congested areas of midfield and central areas e.g. 25-30m from goal if the defence is set.
 
santa sangria said:
Anyone have any "I am pontificating advantage" words or gestures they use?
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I tend to say something like "Go on, Can you play?" shows you've seen the foul, then you've got three options:

1 a) if a "solid" foul and good advantage starts to acrue = bang out the arms and call advantage (so the Observer can hear).
1 b) if a minor foul (slight nudge, fraction of a shirt pull etc.) - just play on wityhout doing anything (attacker knows you've seen it, but you're not drawing undue attention to yourself).
2) if no advantage develops, hit the whistle and free kick.

The act of saying something before giving the full arms out and shout of "play on - advantage" gives you time to make a decision that looks neat and credible, but by saying something the players in the vicinity know you've seen the incident so aren't being indecisive, playing to the appeal, or similar.
 
GraemeS said:
Unsurprisingly, I think this is terrible advice. Players know that advantage is a thing, they will often expect you to apply it and will often get annoyed when an opportunity to play advantage is missed - particularly if they feel they are less likely to score from a set piece than a flowing attack with opponents out of position.

Of course it's possible to get it wrong, but I don't think that should be a reason not to try and use it. It's possible to get a penalty or red card decision wrong as well, but you're not going to go very far as a referee if you don't use those powers. For me, the same applies to advantage.
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But players vastly overrate their own skill levels.....so Joe Thug from Troglodytes Utd might have an expectation that he is going to glide past 4 defenders and curl one into the top corner but the reality is that he will most likely lose the ball and moan "Where's the advantage then?".....in short....you can't win....you blow for the foul, he'll moan about wanting advantage, you try to play a marginal one, he will lose the ball after just long enough for it not be credible to pull it back, then he'll moan at you for not pulling back.

When I'm observing I would rather see a referee who plays one genuine good advantage all game, then one who tries to play numerous questionable ones, whether they get away with or not. Dodgy advantages are a risk to your match control, plain and simple.
 
Padfoot said:
But players vastly overrate their own skill levels.....so Joe Thug from Troglodytes Utd might have an expectation that he is going to glide past 4 defenders and curl one into the top corner but the reality is that he will most likely lose the ball and moan "Where's the advantage then?".....in short....you can't win....you blow for the foul, he'll moan about wanting advantage, you try to play a marginal one, he will lose the ball after just long enough for it not be credible to pull it back, then he'll moan at you for not pulling back.

When I'm observing I would rather see a referee who plays one genuine good advantage all game, then one who tries to play numerous questionable ones, whether they get away with or not. Dodgy advantages are a risk to your match control, plain and simple.
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THIS.

Also unfortunately some referees think they are on MotD and only just stop themselves looking round for the cameras when they play a decent advantage.
 
Brian Hamilton said:
THIS.

Also unfortunately some referees think they are on MotD and only just stop themselves looking round for the cameras when they play a decent advantage.
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Ha! I just found a video of the game I did BEFORE the one mentioned in the OP. In the OP I did these 4 questionable advantages. In the video of the game before, in 80 mins U15 girls, I did one genuine delightful advantage all game, beautiful seen and heard on camera, no observer. LOL
 
I play A LOT of advantages, and players generally appreciate it. When I first got L4 I played way too many if the truth be told and I had to reign it in, but I will still look for every opportunity to play advantage.

The key thing for me is clear space to run into, rather than where it is on the pitch. No use playing advantage if the player with the ball has a wall of players to run through, he'd be better off with the free kick. Whereas I once had a situation where a player was fouled after he headed it clear of his own area, was about to blow when I realised the ball had broken to the right winger in the right bac position who had acres of space to run into. Conventional logic would say no chance of advantage there, but it paid off as the defending team broke and scored from it.
 
Am old school, I use the traffic lights system, if its defensive its, red light, which means stop the play. If its central, its amber for me, I can weigh it up, its a maybe, depends on the timing, players involved, the current tempo/heat of the game, if its attacking, then its go go go,, I give it every possible chance to play advantage, not of course at expense of costing the attacking team a direct kick at goal, but, the mindset is more, why cant I play this on?
Of course using the recall facility is important, of course its good practise not to signal advantage then have to pull it back, but hey, sometimes it happens, I would simply go "guys, that was me trying to be too clever, that was not advantage, am coming back for the foul", and I would always try/intend to communicate to the fouled player "look I saw it and your team got advantage " and if needed, go back to the fouler and issue either the quiet word, public warning, sanction, whatever.....
 
While as alluded to in my previous post i will generally point out ive seen a foul before either playing advantage or pulling it back for the foul, advantages has to be one of the weaker parts of my game.

Ive never had an advantage which has resulted in a goal, and a lot of the time they fizzle out with 10 seconds or so.

Im not sure whether this is because im playing advantage where there isnt one, or whether i just referee teams that do t have the skill to do anything with an advantage when they have one.

This has made me very wary of trying to play advantage, i think ive probably only played 3-4 in the whole 16/17 season
 
zarathustra said:
While as alluded to in my previous post i will generally point out ive seen a foul before either playing advantage or pulling it back for the foul, advantages has to be one of the weaker parts of my game.

Ive never had an advantage which has resulted in a goal, and a lot of the time they fizzle out with 10 seconds or so.

Im not sure whether this is because im playing advantage where there isnt one, or whether i just referee teams that do t have the skill to do anything with an advantage when they have one.

This has made me very wary of trying to play advantage, i think ive probably only played 3-4 in the whole 16/17 season
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Good. Advantage is something to be cautious of over inappropriate use.

You have to consider the skill level of the players involved when thinking about advantage, which is why on a Sunday morning, very very few "advantages" are anything of the sort.....
 
zarathustra said:
While as alluded to in my previous post i will generally point out ive seen a foul before either playing advantage or pulling it back for the foul, advantages has to be one of the weaker parts of my game.

Ive never had an advantage which has resulted in a goal, and a lot of the time they fizzle out with 10 seconds or so.

Im not sure whether this is because im playing advantage where there isnt one, or whether i just referee teams that do t have the skill to do anything with an advantage when they have one.

This has made me very wary of trying to play advantage, i think ive probably only played 3-4 in the whole 16/17 season
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It's likely just the skill level of the teams you're refereeing. It's been similar for me this season, only had the one goal all season from an advantage, after which the scorer came back and shook my hand for letting play continue! I took that as a sign that they really weren't actually anticipating scoring from it.

In reality at our level we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. There will always be players wanting the opposite of what you give, irrespective of where on the field the foul occurs and the potential for a continued attack.
 
Rubadub said:
In reality at our level we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. There will always be players wanting the opposite of what you give, irrespective of where on the field the foul occurs and the potential for a continued attack.
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That's oh so true. And because we might end up damned either way, I would always advocate erring on the side of playing slightly more advantages (in sensible areas of the field and where players have room to run into). Whether they in reality have the skill to exploit it or not, players will generally be appreciative .. and it fits with our role of faciltating a fun and enjoyable game for all participants. Only exceptions .... if the temperature of the game dictated otherwise or the pace of the game dictated that I needed a breather :)
 
This is such a great thread. Not only are we damned if we do and damned if we don't from a player/game perspective - you can see the observers on here don't even agree on an approach.
 
WilliamD said:
This is such a great thread. Not only are we damned if we do and damned if we don't from a player/game perspective - you can see the observers on here don't even agree on an approach.
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There's some great stuff here. Skill level yes, but we should also have a feeling for match context and player context at lower levels. I agree that at lower levels where players get less opportunities to play (because lack of skill makes moves short and keeps the ball bogged down) then more advantages makes sense.

But treat every decision on its own merits.
 
Padfoot said:
Easy solution to all advantage related troubles.......don't play it unless someone is about to slot the ball into an empty net.

The more you go looking for opportunities to play advantage the bigger mess you'll get into. If there is any shred of a doubt in your mind about whether its "advantage" or not.....it's not.
The most genuine advantages are obvious and easy to spot.......anything else is an opportunity for a ref to guess, pray, hope and ultimately get themselves in a mess 90% of the time.
Click to expand...

Now that you've written this, it makes so much sense! Especially for one who regularly used to get into knots with trying to play an advantage.........the few good ones by far outweighed by all the dodgy ones that I had to pull back or worse.....
 
What I am trying to do (due to good advice, tuition and schooling from more experienced souls on this forum (@Padfoot I'm looking at you in particular)) is to be much more conscious of not allowing "advantage" to allow me to duck making decision, something I was (and probably still am) guilty.

"Was that a foul? Erm, not sure. I know, lets play advantage and hopes everyone forgets about it ..." Now I hope I'm a bit more: "Foul, yes or no? If yes, blow or play advantage" - I'm trying to train myself to be a bit more decisive and not use advantage as a get out clause. I'll still play advantage, and bring it back if no advantage accrues, but I want to be clearer in my own mind as to why I'm playing advantage.
 
And I have an advantage success story from last night. County cup final, not only did I pontificate my consideration of an advantage it resulted in a goal that turned around the match so wooohooo.
Reality check: don't think that's going to happen very soon though hehehe. Oh and the final was a cracker of a game
 
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