A&H

Advantage woe

It's difficult to judge at times. As others have said 9/10 times nothing good comes of it. Good example from the weekend in the Boro v City game where Kevin Friend played advantage following Forshaw's late challenge which led to nothing but should have been a second caution. As he played the advantage he didn't then go back for the second caution.
 
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Twinblade said:
It's difficult to judge at times. As others have said 9/10 times nothing good comes of it. Good example from the weekend in the Boro v City game where Kevin Friend played advantage following Forshaw's late challenge which led to nothing but should have been a second caution. As he played the advantage he didn't then go back for the second caution.
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I'll wager KF didn't think it was a 2nd YC offence, otherwise we would be talking about the same "mistake" I made in the OP. Can you link a video? Would be be interesting.
 
Twinblade said:
It's difficult to judge at times. As others have said 9/10 times nothing good comes of it. Good example from the weekend in the Boro v City game where Kevin Friend played advantage following Forshaw's late challenge which led to nothing but should have been a second caution. As he played the advantage he didn't then go back for the second caution.
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Probably one of the most ill advised things you can do whilst reffing a game, anyone commits a 2nd yellow (or indeed a straight red) offence, stop the game and dismiss the player. Extreme yes, but by not doing so you are running a risk of the attacking move breaking down and the " to be sanctioned" player scoring a goal. What on earth do you do then? Allow the goal then send off the scorer who should not have been on the park?!!
Allow the would be sanctioned player to commit another serious foul play tackle when he should indeed be off the park? I have only ever seen or heard of one incident where play was allowed to continue following a foul by a player on a yellow card whose future offence was worthy of a second yellow and a goal was scored and the offender was duly sent packing.
I have however been present at an SPL match where a player on a yellow committed a clear yellow card offence on the half way line, the referee missed the challenge but the assistant thought the referee had seen it but was somehow playing advantage, the move broke down, the assistant then flagged, but only after the player had hit the post with an effort on goal. The question was then asked at high levels, what would have happened had this player scored? The word back from very very high levels was, disaster, a replay.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Probably one of the most ill advised things you can do whilst reffing a game, anyone commits a 2nd yellow (or indeed a straight red) offence, stop the game and dismiss the player. Extreme yes, but by not doing so you are running a risk of the attacking move breaking down and the " to be sanctioned" player scoring a goal. What on earth do you do then? Allow the goal then send off the scorer who should not have been on the park?!!
Allow the would be sanctioned player to commit another serious foul play tackle when he should indeed be off the park? I have only ever seen or heard of one incident where play was allowed to continue following a foul by a player on a yellow card whose future offence was worthy of a second yellow and a goal was scored and the offender was duly sent packing.
I have however been present at an SPL match where a player on a yellow committed a clear yellow card offence on the half way line, the referee missed the challenge but the assistant thought the referee had seen it but was somehow playing advantage, the move broke down, the assistant then flagged, but only after the player had hit the post with an effort on goal. The question was then asked at high levels, what would have happened had this player scored? The word back from very very high levels was, disaster, a replay.
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New laws cover this - play is to be stopped as soon as the to-be-dismissed player touches the ball again, player is dismissed and play is restarted with an IFK to the other side. But yes, before the current revision, this was definitely to be discouraged because there wasn't a method in the laws for stopping the game at a later time.
 
My apologies, I said scored a goal, that's one aspect, the player could go on to do many things though, commit another foul, be involved in an attacking move without touching the ball, commit an act of v/c when he should already be dismissed etc...
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Probably one of the most ill advised things you can do whilst reffing a game, anyone commits a 2nd yellow (or indeed a straight red) offence, stop the game and dismiss the player. Extreme yes, but by not doing so you are running a risk of the attacking move breaking down and the " to be sanctioned" player scoring a goal. What on earth do you do then? Allow the goal then send off the scorer who should not have been on the park?!!
Allow the would be sanctioned player to commit another serious foul play tackle when he should indeed be off the park? I have only ever seen or heard of one incident where play was allowed to continue following a foul by a player on a yellow card whose future offence was worthy of a second yellow and a goal was scored and the offender was duly sent packing.
I have however been present at an SPL match where a player on a yellow committed a clear yellow card offence on the half way line, the referee missed the challenge but the assistant thought the referee had seen it but was somehow playing advantage, the move broke down, the assistant then flagged, but only after the player had hit the post with an effort on goal. The question was then asked at high levels, what would have happened had this player scored? The word back from very very high levels was, disaster, a replay.
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This is covered in the new laws. As mentioned in the OP. Laws state when the player interferes with play, then whistle, give 2nd YC, RC (or RC) and IFK to the other team. Of course, if there is a 2nd YC or RC, the advantage should only be played if there is a double cast iron goalscoring opportunity that outweighs the effect of the sanction. So, obvs no advantage if in penalty box unless open goal etc.

This is the learning from this thread. Basically never play advantage in a 2nd YC or RC situation - partly because you can't trust the players to score from a gilt edged chance - partly because the new laws (potential IFK result) would mean loss of match control... with maybe the exception of an open goal... but even then...

EDIT: sorry I see Graeme already pointed that out
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Never? 99.99999% maybe....... watch from 49 secs....

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Brilliant clip. Great example.

Match context is key here I think. Celtic are leading, certain victory, yes? They want to score goals. Ref recognises the man over, knows Celtic are in a shooting mood. Advantage is risky in case play stalls and the offender gets back in the game (leading to the IFK etc.)... but on balance ref is confident.

However, this is a nightmare if the GK catches a shot, or Celtic decide to keep possession. Imagine the GK catches and punts and you have to stop play when the offender challenges for the header in midfield, and you have to give an IFK and send him off. Nightmare for match control and with the crowd - and worse on TV. Everyone will think you made it up until 5 days letter the Sun prints an apology.

Based on what I know now, in an (observed!) lower league/semi pro game, in a tight match, no way would I play that advantage.
 
I would add its an experienced referee who is not looking to impress anyone, in other words, even on the biggest stage he feels confident enough to take a chance, its excellent management and feeling for the occasion, Celtic, at home, in a fast attack, you can nearly read the referee at the foul about to blow then saying to himself, feck it, lets risk it here, and signals advantage. Chances of the ICT player being involved in the play again are slim, its either going to be a goal or a goal kick/corner kick when Celtic attack at home like that, its excellent reading of a situation.
 
Nobody can ever answer that until it happens, so many factors, how the game is going, how long is played, what the score is, current card count, the condition of the pitch, whether your prev attempt to pay advantage has come off, in some cases, who your assessor is, so many underlying issues!

Answer to your question, is a big yes though. But then again am well past the stage of being assessed....
 
Where do we stand on advantage signals at offside?

Forgive my memory fades about this and if this has changed. Do I understand correctly that "playing" advantage is possible under the 2016-> law revisions but was not before? What I am asking is, should we use the advantage signal when asking the AR to put down a flag if e.g. GK has the ball or defender has the ball and is about to start an attack?
 
I just found the other thread on this from last year (which was a bit bizarre to re-read!). And I'll quote @GraemeS again:

"While I don't have any issue with the theory of giving advantage against an offside (and am pretty sure I've done so myself in the past), I'm starting to come round to the idea that most of the time, it's just unnecessary.

If you're thinking of giving advantage, chances are the attacker could be argued to have not interfered with play, however close to the ball they actually get. And on the occasions where the attacker gets a touch on the ball but it still goes through to an opponent, they'd usually be happier with a stationary free kick and associated territory anyway, rather than another defender having to control the ball and play it out or it going all the way back to the keeper."

Unfortunately if you are faced with considering and offside advantage, it probably means your AR has flagged early, hence the "wave it down" gesture and "play on" makes more sense than an advantage signal. Though the laws allow an advantage signal if you must!
 
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zarathustra said:
While as alluded to in my previous post i will generally point out ive seen a foul before either playing advantage or pulling it back for the foul, advantages has to be one of the weaker parts of my game.

Ive never had an advantage which has resulted in a goal, and a lot of the time they fizzle out with 10 seconds or so.

Im not sure whether this is because im playing advantage where there isnt one, or whether i just referee teams that do t have the skill to do anything with an advantage when they have one.

This has made me very wary of trying to play advantage, i think ive probably only played 3-4 in the whole 16/17 season
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I played two yesterday which both resulted in goals!
 
santa sangria said:
Where do we stand on advantage signals at offside?

Forgive my memory fades about this and if this has changed. Do I understand correctly that "playing" advantage is possible under the 2016-> law revisions but was not before?
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There's no 2016-17 Laws change that I can think of, that would make any difference to this particular issue.
 
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