Burnley v City

[Matthew]

I guess the red is where you continue to lose me. I just can't understand why you would accept what you consider a clear and obvious error just because the R looked at it on the monitor down at the field? I just don't understand why you are willing to accept the R making that error and not the VAR making that error, as it is exactly the same error. (Indeed, if anything, I think it is actually easier for the R to get right than the VAR; the VAR has to find and evaluate possible angles while being aware that he is holding up the game, etc., whereas the R gets shown the best angles at the OFR screen and knows that an experienced referee has already deduced that he made a clear error.)

I accept it because regardless of VAR there will always be mistakes made. If the process is followed through to its conclusion (i.e. VAR check, recommend OFR) everything has been done to reach the correct decision and even if it still leads to the wrong decision I can accept it as a fan. It is perfectly possibly to accept a decision and still be annoyed that a different outcome has not been reached; the two are not mutually exclusive.

On this occasion, the referee was not given the chance to correct a clear and obvious error, which I cannot accept.

 

[socal lurker]

I accept it because regardless of VAR there will always be mistakes made. If the process is followed through to its conclusion (i.e. VAR check, recommend OFR) everything has been done to reach the correct decision and even if it still leads to the wrong decision I can accept it as a fan. It is perfectly possibly to accept a decision and still be annoyed that a different outcome has not been reached; the two are not mutually exclusive.

On this occasion, the referee was not given the chance to correct a clear and obvious error, which I cannot accept.

I think what you are making is really an argument for expanding the scope of OFR from the current protocol. You can't accept the VAR making an error in determining whether it is a clear error, but you could accept the R making the exact same error. That's not inherently unreasonable--it's really an extension of why we have OFRs in the first place instead of the VAR just "fixing" the R's mistake. (And indeed why in the US MLS went to OFR for some objective decisions--they think the results will be better accepted that way.) But the only way to get there is to expand from the current protocol so that the VAR is to send things down based on a looser standard than what the R is going to apply on the OFR. The powers that be didn't want that because they wanted to minimize the interference with the flow of the game that is caused by every OFR--so they deliberately made it very restrictive. (I understand those who want to expand, but I'm not a proponent--personally I'd rather abolish VR than enhance it. I personally loathe the disruptions and would rather just accept what referees call and live with it.)

 

[bloovee]

Or we could just use VAR for clear and obvious errors....

 

[santa sangria]

Disingenuous to say the R is the sole arbitrator - ARs make decisions on incidents the ref does not see. Technicality but anyway.

We debate VAR from the point of view of decision making, effectiveness, match control etc... And less from player, coach and fan point if view.

Every match makes me a more vehement opponent from a player/coach, fan and decision-making point of view.

I really think it has spoilt football. I want to defend colleagues and the officials trying to make it work but I am over it. Sad really.

 

[one]

I really think if VAR is used for another 5 years or so we will start to see the benefits of it. The tech will improve and the operators (officials) of it will be better trained and equipped with better consistency.

What I hope is that the damage it will do to the game untill then will not be irreversible.

 

[Big Cat]

I really think if VAR is used for another 5 years or so we will start to see the benefits of it. The tech will improve and the operators (officials) of it will be better trained and equipped with better consistency.

What I hope is that the damage it will do to the game untill then will not be irreversible.

I don't share your optimism. There are no foundations on which to build. Fixes just cause breakages. They'd need to start again and that's never gonna happen. The game is facing very challenging times. I can't see a way forward with or without VAR. Even if the EPL chucked it out (and they're not gonna do that), it's inevitable that opinion would swing back in favour of it the moment referees rob their teams of points.

VAR is a disaster, but the last paragraph from https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/the-graun-on-var.16119/#post-186096 encapsulates the problem. The incident in Turkey (where they don't have VAR), in which a player was ejected from the game for producing video evidence from his phone. I get both sides to the argument on VAR, but I don't see any way forward (with or without VAR) under Football's Governing Bodies

The problem is not VAR in isolation, it's FIFA, it's IFAB, PGMOL, it's the culture (on & off the field), it's the dynamics of the game, it's the Match Officiating, the money, the demand for binary application of science, the mis-use of technology... I could go on. How do they fix all that?