PinnerPaul
RefChat Addict
I've been using them for offsides for 14 years and still alive to tell the tale!
Club assistant referee - Responsibilities.
- Thread starter JamesL
- Start date
I've been using them for offsides for 14 years and still alive to tell the tale!
I've been using them for offsides for 14 years and still alive to tell the tale!
Me too for almost 20 years, although granted for much of that time I haven't done that many games without neutrals.
You can tell very quickly if a club assistant is doing a decent and fair job on offsides or not. Get close to inline for the first few and you'll soon know how capable he is, and if he isn't you know that you need to take more of an involvement yourself. Some are hopeless, some are very good, most are somewhere in between, and you can't really judge them until you've seen them in action.
Russell Jones
RefChat Addict
Totally agree Rusty.
And to paraphrase a helpful saying, 'Whether you think they will be useless or whether you think they will be helpful, you're probably right'! In other words, if you treat CARs as an inconvenience, minimise their duties and take every borderline opportunity to overrule then they'll soon lose interest and just go through the motions. If, on the other hand, you welcome their help, give them more to do (including offsides) and act in a generally supportive manner (to some extent as you would with NARs) then from my experience, in many cases they will rise to the challenge and do at least a half decent job.
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If we ask the CAR to give offsides, we would need the emergency services...
Ambulances for the CAR who has collapsed from moving.....
Police for the fight caused by the CAR's flagging....
And the York league is well behaved.
Good character building, I always say.
Ambulances for the CAR who has collapsed from moving.....
Police for the fight caused by the CAR's flagging....
And the York league is well behaved.
Good character building, I always say.
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CapnBloodbeard
RefChat Addict
Just do what's typical in your area. In my area, we put CAR's on their attacking side and let them do offsides. When in Rome.
I still try and keep a close eye on offside myself, but I'm not going to overrule one unless I'm certain.
Then again where I originally refereed, we didn't use CARs at all - it was NAR's or you were by yourself!
Personally I prefer that and I haven't even suffered a problematic CAR!
I still try and keep a close eye on offside myself, but I'm not going to overrule one unless I'm certain.
Then again where I originally refereed, we didn't use CARs at all - it was NAR's or you were by yourself!
Personally I prefer that and I haven't even suffered a problematic CAR!
RefJef
RefChat Addict
I c@cked up yesterday.
CARs: blue car was sub, and pretty rubbish - all offside decisions in that half had to be mine. Red CAR was not bad, up with play etc. Game now well into 2nd half, close game still 0-0, both sides playing good football, but both sides lack a cutting edge up front. Good natured, competitive game. However, red CAR perhaps becoming flag happy, I'm becoming dubious about some of his decisions, but where he is clearly in a better position than me I'm still happy to go with him.
Now 1-0 to blues, but still a close game, could go either way. I'm just inside red half, in line with play. Blue slots 10 yard pass to no.9 in front of him. Blue 9 was definetly onside before ball was played, he anticipated pass and made forward run, but had he moved offside as ball was played? CAR flagged as ball was played, I saw flag instantly, made quick decision he was onside (stripes in grass on pitch helped me) immeadiatly overulled flag, called "play on, he's onside". No. 9 only goes on to score a creamer from edge of box. Cue one v upset CAR who then didn't bother with much for last 5 mins of game and politely expressed his displeasure with my decision when I went to speak with him after the game.
If I'm honest, on refelection I can't be sure whether it was on or offside, it was tight, and you'd need a few replays to come to a conclusion - that ain't going to happen.
I suppose that, having relied on him a lot - particularly those occasions where their was a quick break away or long ball over the top, and I was a long way behind play - I could been more consistent and stuck with his decision. But , I was beginning to doubt his decisions, I was well positioned in this incident and there was a element of doubt in my mind that he was right on this occasion, so I overruled him. S@ds law - the first time I do so, striker goes on to score. If he'd shanked into the stands, no one would have bothered.
Oh well, another game this afternoon...
CARs: blue car was sub, and pretty rubbish - all offside decisions in that half had to be mine. Red CAR was not bad, up with play etc. Game now well into 2nd half, close game still 0-0, both sides playing good football, but both sides lack a cutting edge up front. Good natured, competitive game. However, red CAR perhaps becoming flag happy, I'm becoming dubious about some of his decisions, but where he is clearly in a better position than me I'm still happy to go with him.
Now 1-0 to blues, but still a close game, could go either way. I'm just inside red half, in line with play. Blue slots 10 yard pass to no.9 in front of him. Blue 9 was definetly onside before ball was played, he anticipated pass and made forward run, but had he moved offside as ball was played? CAR flagged as ball was played, I saw flag instantly, made quick decision he was onside (stripes in grass on pitch helped me) immeadiatly overulled flag, called "play on, he's onside". No. 9 only goes on to score a creamer from edge of box. Cue one v upset CAR who then didn't bother with much for last 5 mins of game and politely expressed his displeasure with my decision when I went to speak with him after the game.
If I'm honest, on refelection I can't be sure whether it was on or offside, it was tight, and you'd need a few replays to come to a conclusion - that ain't going to happen.
I suppose that, having relied on him a lot - particularly those occasions where their was a quick break away or long ball over the top, and I was a long way behind play - I could been more consistent and stuck with his decision. But , I was beginning to doubt his decisions, I was well positioned in this incident and there was a element of doubt in my mind that he was right on this occasion, so I overruled him. S@ds law - the first time I do so, striker goes on to score. If he'd shanked into the stands, no one would have bothered.
Oh well, another game this afternoon...
Ref-Al
Member
You went with your gut at the time, so trust it. Sounds like you didn't coc* up, sounds like you may have given a player a chance to score a great goal instead of being ruled incorrectly offside.
I always tell them that I'll take all fouls, last thing you want is a club lino flagging ferociously for a foul that you're in a good enough position to see and not give. Offsides are a tough one because they're obviously in the best position to give them.......have overruled a few times in the past but it's difficult to unless you're in such a good position, which you're usually not if there is a long punt forward for example!
Mooseybaby
Retired big bad baldy in all black!
Had a mixed bag of CARs in Dorset/South Hampshire. Some very good, some terrible, some blatantly dishonest and most somewhere in between....
Try to keep my pre-match short and sweet, quick hello, you take care of ins/outs & offside whilst fouls/foul throws are mine and try not to be offended if I over-rule.
Certainly wouldn't use the ref from my son's u14s match today as a template for pre-match chats. Was within ear shot of his nigh on 10 minute lecture to both CARs as to what he expected blah blah blah.
Try to keep my pre-match short and sweet, quick hello, you take care of ins/outs & offside whilst fouls/foul throws are mine and try not to be offended if I over-rule.
Certainly wouldn't use the ref from my son's u14s match today as a template for pre-match chats. Was within ear shot of his nigh on 10 minute lecture to both CARs as to what he expected blah blah blah.
It has been useful to read these contributions after this morning. A CAR-elect came over to me before kick (that itself is unusual) and showed a real interest in his responsibilities. My common introduction is to thank them for volunteering, give them the flag and run through the four principal instructions:
1) Offsides (but don't be put out if I overrule for whatever reason)
2) In and out of play (I also might start telling them not to interfere with goal-line decisions, just in case this renders my position untenable; thoughts?)
3) Foul throws; less important, but our pre-season county training session last year encouraged referees to give CARs the feet on the throw-in.
4) No flagging for any fouls/misconduct
I told him that it was important to build trust and for parents who do this job to be respected, so any abuse is treated in exactly the same way as for a neutral assistant. Having mentioned my rules on fouls/misconduct, it occurred to me whether to extend their duties, in conjunction with the referee's prerogative, to off-the-ball incidents (violent conduct, OFFINABUS etc.). I know that could lead to accusations of abdicating your own responsibility, but surely it's more compromising to listen to an individual (whose integrity you presuppose by offering him/her the flag and maintaining him/her in that role) and have no recourse to sanction, even if his/her view goes into a match report.
1) Offsides (but don't be put out if I overrule for whatever reason)
2) In and out of play (I also might start telling them not to interfere with goal-line decisions, just in case this renders my position untenable; thoughts?)
3) Foul throws; less important, but our pre-season county training session last year encouraged referees to give CARs the feet on the throw-in.
4) No flagging for any fouls/misconduct
I told him that it was important to build trust and for parents who do this job to be respected, so any abuse is treated in exactly the same way as for a neutral assistant. Having mentioned my rules on fouls/misconduct, it occurred to me whether to extend their duties, in conjunction with the referee's prerogative, to off-the-ball incidents (violent conduct, OFFINABUS etc.). I know that could lead to accusations of abdicating your own responsibility, but surely it's more compromising to listen to an individual (whose integrity you presuppose by offering him/her the flag and maintaining him/her in that role) and have no recourse to sanction, even if his/her view goes into a match report.
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@SLI39 you cant give them offinabus/fouls and misconduct. its a big can of worms. you cant send someone off for something u havent seen.
An example, a player commits VC against an opponent. you dont see it. 2 scenarios 1 with NAR and 1 with CAR
1. with NAR, he'll call you over, tell u what he has seen then YOU decide the sanction i.e. red card. Both you and your NAR submit a report via wholegame system and it is dealt with.
2 with CAR. all the above is thesame except how would a club CAR submit a report, and write in the correct way. without it how would your report stand up against an appeal?
For me as i said when i opened this thread its in and out and the direction only, I'd be very worried giving anything else given some of the misunderstandings I've heard re new laws on tv and from people i know.
An example, a player commits VC against an opponent. you dont see it. 2 scenarios 1 with NAR and 1 with CAR
1. with NAR, he'll call you over, tell u what he has seen then YOU decide the sanction i.e. red card. Both you and your NAR submit a report via wholegame system and it is dealt with.
2 with CAR. all the above is thesame except how would a club CAR submit a report, and write in the correct way. without it how would your report stand up against an appeal?
For me as i said when i opened this thread its in and out and the direction only, I'd be very worried giving anything else given some of the misunderstandings I've heard re new laws on tv and from people i know.
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
Had a strange one this afternoon.
I'd gone to watch my Mrs play in deepest darkest London, and the home club didn't have someone to run the line.
So being a good samaritan I said I'd run the line for them.
The previous match brief was fairly standard ball in and out of play and offsides.
In the second half my girlfriends team takes a shot which was saved. my girlfriends team claim it went in, home team said it didn't.
Ref looked over to me then disallowed the goal.
Now I wasn't 100% the whole of the ball crossed the whole of the line as there were legs etc in the way.
After the games I was told the ref had said that if I'd flagged for the goal he'd have given it. This got me thinking.
1. why would he try and pass the decision onto a CAR, especially after not including goals in his brief
2. would I have made it out alive if I had flagged for the goal.
3. has anyone ever been brave enough to give CARs goals etc
I'd gone to watch my Mrs play in deepest darkest London, and the home club didn't have someone to run the line.
So being a good samaritan I said I'd run the line for them.
The previous match brief was fairly standard ball in and out of play and offsides.
In the second half my girlfriends team takes a shot which was saved. my girlfriends team claim it went in, home team said it didn't.
Ref looked over to me then disallowed the goal.
Now I wasn't 100% the whole of the ball crossed the whole of the line as there were legs etc in the way.
After the games I was told the ref had said that if I'd flagged for the goal he'd have given it. This got me thinking.
1. why would he try and pass the decision onto a CAR, especially after not including goals in his brief
2. would I have made it out alive if I had flagged for the goal.
3. has anyone ever been brave enough to give CARs goals etc
zarathustra
RefChat Addict
Not sure brave is the right word
One thing is for sure, letting CARS make goal/no goal decisions would certainly liven things up a bit.
Jacob Walukiewicz
Active Member
In my opinion, if a CAR is on his own left back and is giving one against his team I'd accept it. But I've never done it, I've been that CAR and so has my dad, both times my team mates insisted that we should have lied, but it's up to the ref at the end of the day.
yes I have signalled for goal when doing the line for my son's team. Referee had initially waved away appeals for goal but changed his mind when I flagged. Goalies dad was stood by the net (pre spectator barrier days) and confirmed ball at least 2 feet behind line. I flagged because I was certain ball had crossed the line and my integrity more important than result of game.
When I am refereeing I ask For goal to be signalled aswell as ensuring goal kicks leaving the area. I also ask them to flag if keeper handles outside the box and I have had 1 NAR flag for this which resulted in red card for his son who was the keeper, I had seen this one clearly myself anyway so red card would have happened anyway.
When I am refereeing I ask For goal to be signalled aswell as ensuring goal kicks leaving the area. I also ask them to flag if keeper handles outside the box and I have had 1 NAR flag for this which resulted in red card for his son who was the keeper, I had seen this one clearly myself anyway so red card would have happened anyway.
The chance of a CAR being anywhere even close to the goal line to be able to make the decision is remote. A good NAR would follow the shot in, I can't see a CAR doing that even if he was level with the second last defender in the first place.
Depends where you live. In the north it is generally ball in and out of play only, the south that extends, or can extend, to offsides, but I don't think it would appropriate anywhere to give them free kicks, penalties, goal decisions, etc.
Depends where you live. In the north it is generally ball in and out of play only, the south that extends, or can extend, to offsides, but I don't think it would appropriate anywhere to give them free kicks, penalties, goal decisions, etc.
Since qualifying, I've acted as CAR for my brother's team and I've had numerous instances where I've been told a CAR is a qualified referee (and about a quarter of those times, his movement has indicated that might be true!).
Maybe you've been unlucky, but I would argue that around half of the CAR's I see tend to at least try to be in what they think is the right position. And it's very easy when you're in the middle to work out if your AR's are putting in the effort or not and adjust your movement appropriately. Going in with a pre-set poor opinion of CAR's is unfair IMO and might get in the way of you making good use of those who are trying their best.