False name!

[Kent Ref]

I sin binned a youth player today and he gave me first name X second name Y.

I work with his dad so i know his real name is A and B.

Do i submit caution as is or do i speak to the county FA on Monday?

The name given does not even exist on the WGS either!

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

I sin binned a youth player today and he gave me first name X second name Y.

I work with his dad so i know his real name is A and B.

Do i submit caution as is or do i speak to the county FA on Monday?

The name given does not even exist on the WGS either!

Did you ask the coach to confirm the name after the game? If not, add the given name in WGS and then the Sin Bin report.
The club will be asked his true identity by the CFA.
The player may well be charged with giving a false name.
If the club did advise the correct name after the game you can add that fact to your report.

 

[Runner-Ref]

Put the name in that you were given. Let the County FA sort the rest.

 

[lincs22]

Put the name in that you were given. Let the County FA sort the rest.

The club will get the fine for the YC and a misconduct report for the false name, when they can't agree with the players registered. This is one of the types of misconduct report which can lead to a points deductions (under the new rules).

Also, clubs don't tend to suffer the fine for a false name, so they will be re-charged that cost to the player.

 

[Steve Fall]

You can enter the name given and leave it with the County to sort. In some cases - e.g. if this was a cup game they could get removed for fielding an illegable player etc.

 

[Kent Ref]

Did you ask the coach to confirm the name after the game? If not, add the given name in WGS and then the Sin Bin report.
The club will be asked his true identity by the CFA.
The player may well be charged with giving a false name.
If the club did advise the correct name after the game you can add that fact to your report.

Thank you for that.

I didn't approach the coach after.

I get the impression that the county will ask the club for the real name but when he's named that's going to be the end of the matter.

 

[cooperd5]

Was told this on the ref course, when givne Mickey Mouse as a name, say "Mickey Mouse eh? Still want me to write that?" and put it in for County to sort.

 

[Peter Grove]

Thank you for that.

I didn't approach the coach after.

I get the impression that the county will ask the club for the real name but when he's named that's going to be the end of the matter.

Why do you get that impression? Unless the county is being totally derelict in their duty the player should be getting charged for giving a false name. It's a specific, named offence in the FA disciplinary regulations.

 

[Kent Ref]

Why do you get that impression? Unless the county is being totally derelict in their duty the player should be getting charged for giving a false name. It's a specific, named offence in the FA disciplinary regulations.

Do youth players get charged in the same way as adults?

 

[ARF]

It's a specific, named offence in the FA disciplinary regulations.

Out of interest, are you sure this is right Peter? I like to think I know the Discip Regs pretty well (after all, it was my job for five years to know them!) but I don't recall it being explicitly listed in there. That being said, I've been bedridden for three days with the flu so my recollection may not be completely infullible.

 

[Peter Grove]

Out of interest, are you sure this is right Peter? I like to think I know the Discip Regs pretty well (after all, it was my job for five years to know them!) but I don't recall it being explicitly listed in there. That being said, I've been bedridden for three days with the flu so my recollection may not be completely infullible.

Took this from a discussion on the same topic that we had many years ago now. It's from a document entitled, [FA] Disciplinary Procedures, dated 2008. I actually couldn't find an updated version of the same document it came from yet. I'll keep looking.

So I suppose the most I can say right now is that it used to be listed back in 2008 but I can't say for sure that it is now. Although I'm unsure why they would have removed it as an offence in the meantime.

 

[RustyRef]

Took this from a discussion on the same topic that we had many years ago now. It's from a document entitled, [FA] Disciplinary Procedures, dated 2008. I actually couldn't find an updated version of the same document it came from yet. I'll keep looking.
View attachment 6988
So I suppose the most I can say right now is that it used to be listed back in 2008 but I can't say for sure that it is now. Although I'm unsure why they would have removed it as an offence in the meantime.

That predates match based suspensions, so I suspect is no longer relevant.

 

[ARF]

Took this from a discussion on the same topic that we had many years ago now. It's from a document entitled, [FA] Disciplinary Procedures, dated 2008. I actually couldn't find an updated version of the same document it came from yet. I'll keep looking.
View attachment 6988
So I suppose the most I can say right now is that it used to be listed back in 2008 but I can't say for sure that it is now. Although I'm unsure why they would have removed it as an offence in the meantime.

Aha, this used to actually be included in the Disciplinary Procedures section of The FA Handbook, but would now be in the Disciplinary Sanction Guidelines (22/23 grid attached, there is a full document that goes with it but I can't seem to find it, or the 23/24 version). It stopped being explicitly listed as an offence in 2011 when match-based sanctions replaced term-based sanctions, and would now fall under the charge of "Improper Conduct (not including threatening/abusive language/behaviour)".

Under term-based sanctions there were a variety of charges with different punishments, e.g. a player dismissed for violent conduct could have been charged with "Violent Conduct" - 35 days, "Attempting to kick or strike another player" - 21 days, "Kicking or striking another player" - 35 days, "Violent head to head butting" - 112 days, "Attempting to head butt" - 21 days, and "Head to head contact" - 42 days.

Nowadays, unless the referee submits a report that the offence was such that the standard sanction would be insufficient, it would be a cut and dry three matches.

 

[Peter Grove]

That predates match based suspensions, so I suspect is no longer relevant.

OK, but by "not relevant," surely we're not saying that something that used to be seen as worthy of a 21 day suspension is just suddenly not an offence any more - or not one that the disciplinary authorities are even going to bother with?

 

[RustyRef]

OK, but by "not relevant," surely we're not saying that something that used to be seen as worthy of a 21 day suspension is just suddenly not an offence any more - or not one that the disciplinary authorities are even going to bother with?

My point was that the referee will need to submit an extraordinary incident as well as the caution. The caution would be the name given, the extraordinary incident would be to say you believed the name given was false, stating the reasons why.

If just the caution report was sent in the CFA would just process it against the wrong player, and the club are hardly likely to admit that their player gave a false name.

 

[Kent Ref]

My point was that the referee will need to submit an extraordinary incident as well as the caution. The caution would be the name given, the extraordinary incident would be to say you believed the name given was false, stating the reasons why.

If just the caution report was sent in the CFA would just process it against the wrong player, and the club are hardly likely to admit that their player gave a false name.

i rang up and was told to just submit a normal caution for a sin bin.

the cfa would ask for the real name but that would be the end of the matter.

 

[bester]

If they name doesn't exist surely that's a slam dunk punishment for playing an ineligible player?

 

[Runner-Ref]

i rang up and was told to just submit a normal caution for a sin bin.

the cfa would ask for the real name but that would be the end of the matter.

That sounds absolutely bonkers. If there is no comeback on them providing a false name, no-one is ever going to give a proper one........