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Inter v Juventus

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st john

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Just been watching the Italian Cup match.......a penalty awarded for Juventus. I know a 'still' doesn't tell the whole story but look at the height of the ball on the cross, nobody is getting near it and it goes out of play.........Ashley Young is adjudged to have pulled Cuardrado arm as they run into the penalty box........, the Ref gives nothing but VAR tell him to go and review the screen at which point he awards a penalty.

I personally wouldn't be giving that as there is no way Cuardrado is the getting the ball and the contact with Young is minima., Surely if every time someone goes down with contact it cant be a penalty if the ball is nowhere near.
 

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st john said:
I personally wouldn't be giving that as there is no way Cuardrado is the getting the ball and the contact with Young is minima.,
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The first part of that sentence is entirely irrelevant. The ball could be a hundred yards away but if a defender commits a foul in their own penalty area while the ball is in play, it's still a penalty.

The question of whether there's actually enough there for a foul is a valid point - I haven't seen the incident so I can't comment.
 
Peter Grove said:
The first part of that sentence is entirely irrelevant. The ball could be a hundred yards away but if a defender commits a foul in their own penalty area while the ball is in play, it's still a penalty.

The question of whether there's actually enough there for a foul is a valid point - I haven't seen the incident so I can't comment.
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I understand Peter about the foul anywhere on the pitch...ie a kick out or punch for violent conduct but is was a pull on the arm when the ball is 40 feet in the air. It gives the potential for every attacker to drop to the floor if they feel contact when they've no chance of reaching the ball. The Ref initially gave nothing but then reviewed it which made his decision a bit strange for me.
 
st john said:
I personally wouldn't be giving that as there is no way Cuardrado is the getting the ball and the contact with Young is minima., Surely if every time someone goes down with contact it cant be a penalty if the ball is nowhere near.
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Out of interest, how close should the player be? Can you give me an exact measurement?
st john said:
I understand Peter about the foul anywhere on the pitch...ie a kick out or punch for violent conduct but is was a pull on the arm when the ball is 40 feet in the air. It gives the potential for every attacker to drop to the floor if they feel contact when they've no chance of reaching the ball. The Ref initially gave nothing but then reviewed it which made his decision a bit strange for me.
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I’m sorry but if players don’t want to be penalised for fouling opponents they shouldn’t do it. The only reason I’d be considering the distance from the ball is if I can play an advantage (unlikely here!)
 
Jtpetherick1 said:
Out of interest, how close should the player be? Can you give me an exact measurement?

I’m sorry but if players don’t want to be penalised for fouling opponents they shouldn’t do it. The only reason I’d be considering the distance from the ball is if I can play an advantage (unlikely here!)
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I understand what you are saying but there was no chance of anyone reaching the ball, no officials saw the incident OR didn't consider it an infringement and it was VAR who informed the Ref to look at it .......if you have an AR wave his flag because he's seen a player pull an arm of an opponent on the opposite side of the pitch from where the ball is would you stop play and award a free kick.?
I know the still isn't very clear but the two players involved are on the floor and the ball is sailing way over everybody.
 
st john said:
I understand what you are saying but there was no chance of anyone reaching the ball, no officials saw the incident OR didn't consider it an infringement and it was VAR who informed the Ref to look at it .......if you have an AR wave his flag because he's seen a player pull an arm of an opponent on the opposite side of the pitch from where the ball is would you stop play and award a free kick.?
I know the still isn't very clear but the two players involved are on the floor and the ball is sailing way over everybody.
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No, I wouldn’t. Because my AR would have no credibility from that distance - someone with a TV operator would?
 
This was just unnecessary from the VAR in my opinion. No one is expecting a penalty there, and VAR is supposed to be correcting clear and obvious errors, I just don't see that here, it has just caused unnecessary controversy. Especially as no senior referee would have given that real time, yet once they are presented with it on video and forced to look at it they have little choice.
 
Seems trivial to me. That being said, my view might be different on a more prolonged pull which was tending towards USB.
 
st john said:
I understand Peter about the foul anywhere on the pitch...ie a kick out or punch for violent conduct but is was a pull on the arm when the ball is 40 feet in the air. It gives the potential for every attacker to drop to the floor if they feel contact when they've no chance of reaching the ball. The Ref initially gave nothing but then reviewed it which made his decision a bit strange for me.
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OK but again, you're including totally irrelevant factors. How high the ball was in the air has absolutely nothing to do with it. All that matters is, was it a foul or not?

You've got to avoid considering things like:
there was no chance of anyone reaching the ball.
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Or:
the ball is sailing way over everybody.
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The fact that you keep pointing this kind of thing out, suggests that you think it's relevant, whereas it really isn't.
 
Peter Grove said:
OK but again, you're including totally irrelevant factors. How high the ball was in the air has absolutely nothing to do with it. All that matters is, was it a foul or not?

You've got to avoid considering things like:


Or:


The fact that you keep pointing this kind of thing out, suggests that you think it's relevant, whereas it really isn't.
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but in practice, as opposed to theory it is relevant surely?

Obvious example is nearly every corner kick at the top levels, all kinds of pulling, pushing, holding allowed, unless the protagonists involved are challenging for the ball, especially if one of them is a GK and then the whistle sounds.

Example number 452 where the majority of referees go with custom and practice.
 
This may be more of an English thing. Example 623 when an attacker gets a shot away on/towards goal and then immidiately fouled when the ball is in play, the foul is very unlikely to be punished even if there is no advantage.
 
PinnerPaul said:
Obvious example is nearly every corner kick at the top levels, all kinds of pulling, pushing, holding allowed, unless the protagonists involved are challenging for the ball, especially if one of them is a GK and then the whistle sounds.
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Well it's not allowed according to the law - in fact there's a whole section dedicated to how referees should not allow this to happen and should caution players for it, even before the ball is in play, as follows:

Referees are reminded to make an early intervention and to deal firmly with holding offences, especially inside the penalty area at corner kicks and free kicks. To deal with these situations:

the referee must warn any player holding an opponent before the ball is in play

caution the player if the holding continues before the ball is in play

award a direct free kick or penalty kick and caution the player if it happens once the ball is in play
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However you're right to point out that it is widely tolerated by the vast majority of top-flight referees.
 
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