A&H

New Ref- some fairly basic tips

Well done on the 1st game Tom. I won't repeat everything said above, but don't be too hard on yourself. The most experienced referees in the world can still have a bad day, and it actually sounds like you got alot of your decisions spot on but just need to have more confidence in them.

That, like many other things, will come with time. I would speak to your FA about getting someone to come watch you referee and act as a mentor. I suspect it wasn't as bad as you think it was in retrospect, but you've spent ages going over every little thing you said. Often we catastophise these things when we have loads of time to think about them, so having someone there to offer immediate feedback can cut that off.
 
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You will learn more from that game than you would have done a nice easy game. You know what went right so take the positives from that and what you did well. You are also good enough to spot what didn't go right which means you are already on the way to fixing those things. Your next game you will less nervous as you have your first one under your belt. We all have to make a decision sometimes where our positioning isn't great or a player runs into the field of vision and murphys law says that it will be the wrong one, and we will allways get stick for that. A couple of tips to help out try getting some older youth games U14 or U15s a good place to learn positioning and to get used to CARs and try and gets ARs these will ghelp you as you can watch how other refs deal with situations you will come across. You are already showing a willingness to be honest and show advice so you are doing well just for that. This forum is very helpful to new refs, most of the time and very supportive and there are a lot of experienced refs and exrefs on here. Use their knowledge it is a good place to learn.
 
hi tom the most important thing is you have found out it is a lot harder than it looks. as the other guys have said if you come off your first game thinking you are brilliant thats where the trouble starts, you know where you could have done better thats good, and remember we will give you loads of advice you only need to ask
 
I had a better second game yesterday, in a sense it was probably more of a baptism of fire as it was your typical Sunday League pre match organisation.

I turn up at the venue 40 minutes early, the goals were already set up and i was thinking so far, so good. Talk to the home team, get the match fee, all going smoothly then i see the opposition turn up, in exactly the same colours :D I therefore run over to them whilst inspecting the pitch and tell them about the kit clash, to which they respond "oh yeah this happened last time we played but we just played on".... So they obviously didnt think to discuss this with each other for the re-match :) The socks and shorts for both teams were black, and the home team had red and black shirts whilst the away was all red, but it wasn't ideal for sure.
As the kick off time is getting closer the home team only have 9 players turn up and no one on the sidelines to be a CAR. Not an ideal situation but the game ideally needs to go ahead, so i talk to both teams and tell them that in order to be fair there will be no CAR and i will be calling all the decisions. I mentioned to them as well that because they failed to get different kits they need to bear with me and in terms of offsides some decisions will be too tough to call, especially any scrambles in the box as socks, shorts and shirts are hard to differentiate. They were happy enough pre match and were on board with the decisions i made.

In terms of calling throw ins, corners and Goal kicks that went pretty well i felt, most of them were bread and butter decisions. There was one scramble i couldn't quite make out in the box so just went with the goal kick to stay on the safe side, a few moans but nothing too serious.

The biggest complaints were two goals. One the keeper rushed out to meet the ball but dropped it and never had full control as the ball was bouncing around, so the player nicked the ball and tapped it in. A few complaints but i think it was just the home team aggrieved that they conceded. The second goal they complained was offside, but this was in the last 10 minutes of the game, everyone in the box and as i mentioned pre match to them offsides will be tough to call due to the circumstances. Quite honestly it didn't look offside to me, and i couldn't see if it was so went with my instincts. A few players come over to complain but i just reminded them of our pre match discussion.

The one incident that i have been playing over and over in my head and not sure if i got right:

Ball was booted over the top, and keeper and attacker are both running for it, full intent. Either way whoever kicks it they are both going to clatter into one another. The attacker kicks the ball in the air but its not going goalwards, he hasn't genuinely beat the keeper (as i see it anyway) and they were both going in with full momentum so were not gettng out of eachothers way and then they collide. I therefore didn't give a free kick, there were a few grumbles and the covering defender kicked the loose ball out for a throw. If anything i felt it was a fair 50/50, maybe because the attacker technically got there first it was a free kick? I just felt a collision was going to happen whatever the case due to the way they were going in for the challenge.
 
Think about the scenario you describe as a tackle. Two players going for the ball, one gets their first and then gets clattered by the other one. That's a foul, regardless of how likely a collision was, or whether they were both genuinely trying to get there.

Now you can get into the discussion about whether it's a DOGSO if the attacker wasn't in control of the ball after your incident, but it sounds like it absolutely was a foul and almost certainly a yellow card for a reckless challenge by the goalkeeper if he's run full pelt into an attacker and not got the ball.

Well done on managing the expectations of the game well beforehand, and for the decisions on the other goals as it sounds like you got them spot on.
 
Tom Gibbins said:
Ball was booted over the top, and keeper and attacker are both running for it, full intent. Either way whoever kicks it they are both going to clatter into one another. The attacker kicks the ball in the air but its not going goalwards, he hasn't genuinely beat the keeper (as i see it anyway) and they were both going in with full momentum so were not gettng out of eachothers way and then they collide. I therefore didn't give a free kick, there were a few grumbles and the covering defender kicked the loose ball out for a throw. If anything i felt it was a fair 50/50, maybe because the attacker technically got there first it was a free kick? I just felt a collision was going to happen whatever the case due to the way they were going in for the challenge.
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Going only on your description, I think with a bit more experience, you will realise this situation should have resulted in a DFK to the attacking team. As experience builds over games, you'll recognise these challenges more instinctively and will then move on to what sanction to give.
 
Tom Gibbins said:
Thanks guys, appreciate the tips

@Charlie Jones i only overruled one decision, but admittedly i just played on rather than being more vocal which does make more sense. Its a tough one, the offsides were probably the part i found hardest as it just appears difficult to see play from behind. Looking back, i think maybe i should have just trusted every offside decisions and given them due to my limited experience. I think its being authorative and just making the decision, coming in from behind play i honestly couldn't tell whether it was offside or not, maybe i was too central to play and should have come wider so i could look across. Next time i think i will go with the majority of their decisions unless its obvious whilst i work on the rest of the game
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Tom, I referee in an area where CARs are not allowed to give off sides, all those decisions are mine. Do I get them all correct (any?)? Of course I don't, half of the time it's an educated guess.
You should trust your CARs until you are sure they are dodgy and then change positions as @Charlie Jones suggests.
P.S., I wouldn't have the CAR situation any other way!
 
I can't remember the last time i had CARs, I lost faith in them, sorry, that the rules around here too and its done for good reason. If the want to bleat at me then i have the experience and tools to act as i see fit, i get some wrong, of course i do, players miss penalties too!!!
Maybe a north south thing i'm not really sure but I am sure some CARs are decent and honest just not around here LOL!!!!!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I can't remember the last time i had CARs, I lost faith in them, sorry, that the rules around here too and its done for good reason. If the want to bleat at me then i have the experience and tools to act as i see fit, i get some wrong, of course i do, players miss penalties too!!!
Maybe a north south thing i'm not really sure but I am sure some CARs are decent and honest just not around here LOL!!!!!
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I've always been an advocate of CARs, but since I stepped down from L3 I've refereed on a league down here that doesn't allow them at all, so not even for ball in and out of play. There are problems, on Sunday looking into the sun I didn't have a scooby whether the ball had crossed the line or not (you won't have that problem in the North .. :)). Offsides are obviously difficult, you may be looking towards a team's defensive line at which point they clump the ball forward and you have to turn and spin to look at the other team's defensive line, in which case a second may have passed from when the ball was played to where the defenders are. Offside is difficult enough when you are on the line looking right across at it, when you may be facing in the total opposite direction it is totally impossible.

Yet despite all of this, it works well in the league I am doing. Players generally accept that the referee has no chance of getting it right, and unlike teams in leagues that have CARs I can't recall seeing a team playing an offside trap where everyone comes charging out a la Arsenal 1990's style.
 
I'm obviously a Northern ref stuck in the South! I don't use them at all, through choice. I've played in plenty of games that have been spoiled by an over-zealous CAR. I saw one guy who flagged offside every time the other team got the ball, even when they were in their own half! Unfortunately the Referee didn't spot this so he got away with it.
I have used CARs in the past but have got tired of players who think they are always right - unless they are the other team's! - so if they put the flag up I should always believe them, unless it's against them, in which case he's obviously cheating.
However, there aren't many of us who feel like this and on one of the sunday leagues I do I'm the only one. It's always a topic of conversation!
I don't think players realise the lines on the FOP can be used to judge offside. I frequently have players tell me they weren't offside, when not only were they ten yards off, they were also the only player in the penalty area!
When I used them I had some who were very good and some who were very bad, with most firmly in the middle.

I'm pretty sure Essex is the same as Kent, where generally they use CAR for pretty much everything. I wouldn't try to be a hero. If the CAR says offside generally I'd go with it. If you think they may not be right then be aware and keep an eye where possible, but if you think he's wrong but aren't positive then I wouldn't over-rule.

Well done on the second game. Your report came across as a lot happier. The fact that you're questioning the decision about the collision after playing the ball shows that you think you got it wrong and are asking for confirmation, which is exactly the right thing to do. Next time you'll know.

Did you mention the kit clash to the league? In the league handbook - which may be available for download if you don't have a copy - it will say who has to change in the event of a clash. This is usually the away team, but one of my leagues says the home team, because they're likely to be closer to home and able to get a change if necessary. If the league know about it they may be able to make sure it doesn't happen again.
 
markref said:
I'm obviously a Northern ref stuck in the South!
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I feel your pain Mark, we had an Essex Ref come to Sheffield University a few years ago, nice lad, but I had a few messages on FB complaining and checking his interpretations of stuff from managers. It had lead to a few red cards and almost an abandonment but it was the accent and appearance of ****iness that grated them.

They affectionately renamed him Mr C0cknose, and that name followed him, a few will remember him from the previous forum! I'm sure I'd upset a few softies darn sarf too LOL,..
 
In Suffolk we use CARs all the time to do offsides most do an ok job, but when I give my centre circle brief I always remind them I can over rule the flag at offsides as well as all the other standard stuff. You do get a feeling about offside when in the middle. But I really enjoy working with NARs on the bigger games at grass roots
 
A tip- speak to both linos at the same time in front of the captains. No one can ever say they were told something different.
 
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