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Offside calls

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SLI39

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All my difficulties so far this season seem to be deriving from contentious offside calls. I trust the CAR where I have not see anything contrary to his decision, but the current bugbear is players who demand that you 'make your own decision'. They don't appear to understand the concept of consensual decision-making with the referee as the ultimate arbiter. Unfortunately there is a culture of dissent concerning this law in particular. I had to reprimand a 13-year-old--as sternly as I could without producing a card--for petulantly shouting 'go away' at the CAR.

In that match, late on, I whistled after seeing the flag go up, and this corresponded with where I was as well. A parent then complained that a defender had touched the ball, but if there was any contact it was trifling, so it did not reset offside as a deliberate play.

In the second match, however, there was a trickier call, which in retrospect I might have got wrong.
A ball was played over the top, and a busy striker came back from a visibly offside position without touching the ball (thus not interfering with play). The nearside CAR's flag went up for offside, a split second after which a defender made a mess of a header, and the said striker instep volleyed it into the net from 20 yards out, lobbing the keeper. I then blew, much to the consternation of the home side, because I was of the opinion that the striker had interfered with the opponent. The defender would not have headed the ball backwards if the striker hadn't been present. I consulted the CAR, and we agreed on interference with opponent, so IFK was awarded and the goal disallowed. The striker didn't challenge for the ball per se, but he did compromise the defender's vision by his proximity and may also have done a small jump, so I felt justified in giving it. For a couple of minutes that increased the intensity, and I had to have a public word with a couple of players from either side to stave off cautions. To be honest, it was a bit of a 50/50 call, but that's football. I will go back to revise the nuances of the offside law and perhaps try to improve my positioning.

Apart from that, I wasn't dissatisfied with my performance. The ball unfortunately hit me once--tired positioning after a long morning!
I made a goal-line call in the first half in favour of the away team (header from a corner), blowing and pointing as soon as I saw it creep over. The CAR and players ('honest keeper' wouldn't lie!) protested that not all of the ball had gone over the line, but I wasn't going to disbelieve my eyes with an instant call like that. Moreover, I was 90% in the perfect position to make such a decision, whereas the CAR arguably had his view blocked.

There were handshakes at full time (the away team, who lost 4-3 following a late goal, could feel aggrieved after dominating the second half entirely), and a few comments about the deliberate play/offside. We respectfully disagreed about the application, so at least it was civil.
 
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The Referee Store
Sounds fine to me the offside call you made and the rest tbf. Fortunately we aren't there to give decisions on who protests the most!
 
Well, based on your description, that the def didn't attempt to play the ball or impede the opponent, the key phrase in the laws is: "preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision". The small jump is not a factor, that's just clouding things. Based on the line of vision clause, tick the box, offside, good call. Hard to sell though! Especially on the field. No player is gonna buy that! So understandable why it would be contested. It's not a 50/50 call. You were right. It's just quite obscure!

On the goal/no goal... hmm.... 90% good position or 90% sure it was in? You haven't said you saw the whole ball cross the line... did you guess...? I had one as AR this season where the GK body trapping the ball close to the post stopped me seeing a ball that was probably in - didn't help that the spare ball was also just the other side of the net - and the ref could not see. Even though I was pretty sure and the players' body language said it was probably in, there's no way I am calling it if I can't see it (especially with a ref much nearer than me). I got a grilling from the home manager afterwards - happens to be our ref kit distributer! - but I just think you have to be 100% to give ball over the line...
 
I was recently coached by an observer to deal with CAR/offsides in your captains talk. Tell the captains you are going with the CAR every time for offside as long as they are in a credible position. The trick is to tell your CARs in their briefing that you will overrule them if they aren't in a credible position with the second last defender....might get them running. It actually happened today where the captain backed me up on a "dodgy" offside against his team.

I think it was good advice and I've used it the last few weeks.
 
Thanks for all replies. In terms of the offside, I cannot even remember the exact location, but for me (after a few seconds) it was definitely a case of the striker having blocked the vision enough to make defender head the ball back. The little jump may not have been a factor, as you say, but isn't there a clause about doing an action that distracts? It is a hard call to sell, especially with a CAR and the ball having gone in, and the confusion about deliberate play. I ended up laughing it off--both sides contested interfering offences. It's something we have to deal with, the law being complex (in a good way admittedly).

For the goal-line one, I meant my position was nearly ideal. In that split second I was sure I had seen the ball go over the line. It's one of those where if I'd waited any longer, I probably would have convinced myself it wasn't in. I suppose technology might prove me wrong, but I didn't want to lie to myself regarding what I'd seen, whatever the CAR claimed. I fully understand what you're saying about not guessing. Would you recommend taking a second? Blowing instantly conveys certitude, but your eyes can discern weird things sometimes.
 
..."making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball" is the other line you are thinking of... little jump is your phrasing ;)

On #2: if you saw it in: it's in: goal! Well done!
 
When it comes my cars I allow them to flag offside I'm not going to see past that back 4 but if I can tell a player has run past from behind I'll wave the assistant down
 
Had one today!
Attacker kept getting caught offside... then he breaks away again, this time he scores... but I'd already called it back - CAR then pipes up and says not him the other striker ... the non interfering one i bellow!
Yeah... are we playing the non interefering rule!!
Needless to say - I run a higher line from that point on! - bloody knackered... and it was only a practice match - happy days!
 
I feel for you; those ones are always lovely to explain..!
My leagues are pretty short of Saturday refs at the moment, so I've had to do double headers for the last few weeks. I never thought so many matches could resemble nail-biting league deciders this early in the season, so yes, rather draining!
 
If you are sure the ball is completely over the line blow immediatley for the goal. If you hesitate then you are not sure so no goal. Offsides you get good CARs and bad CARs you will know with in 3 decisions if you can trust them or if they actually have any understanding of offside. Just because they are getting it wrong it might be the fact they don't know the law.
 
Old hat, but the best thing about not officiating in England must be the non requirement of CARs.
In Scotland, its rare to have a club man given a flag at all, we just don't, why on earth would you allow a non neutral, non qualified person to even attempt an offside call that Champ league assistants would struggle to make.
Even with the "ball in and out of play" flag that some refs do as CARs for, it makes a throw in at the half way line appear more important than a corner kick/goal kick scenario.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Old hat, but the best thing about not officiating in England must be the non requirement of CARs.
In Scotland, its rare to have a club man given a flag at all, we just don't, why on earth would you allow a non neutral, non qualified person to even attempt an offside call that Champ league assistants would struggle to make.
Even with the "ball in and out of play" flag that some refs do as CARs for, it makes a throw in at the half way line appear more important than a corner kick/goal kick scenario.
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CARs doing ball in and out of play, and offsides is the norm in my neck of the woods, and my experience is that most do a good job, and are willing to make the right call, rather than go with the shouts from their teams.

I've only had to over rule CARs a couple of times, and the only real issues I've encountered is CARs who are great at keeping up with play.
 
Do you know, based on my last two matches, I am wondering whether to trial a system where I only ask for in/out play help at the most. The offside law is certainly complex enough to warrant the referee's exclusive attention. It's just that we are creatures of habit, brought up on the reality of CARs (in the south at any rate) and rarely questioning the logic. Perhaps the clubs would be unhappy, even report me, but they'd soon appreciate the use of a CAR if the referee were in charge of judging offside from the middle. Not requiring them at all also rules out the complications involving dissent, conflicts of interest, and the fear of putting an innocent adult in the firing line.
 
I had to call Offside from the middle when one team turned up with only 10 players and the home team only had enough subs to have a CAR. On quick counters you have no idea at least with CARs you can get a feeling who is trying to do an honest job, who is good, and who is just favouring his own team. Most CARs round here try and do it honestly but the biggest issue is that everyone thinks they know the offside law but most people just have a mish mash from all previous law changes!
 
SLI39 said:
Do you know, based on my last two matches, I am wondering whether to trial a system where I only ask for in/out play help at the most. The offside law is certainly complex enough to warrant the referee's exclusive attention. It's just that we are creatures of habit, brought up on the reality of CARs (in the south at any rate) and rarely questioning the logic. Perhaps the clubs would be unhappy, even report me, but they'd soon appreciate the use of a CAR if the referee were in charge of judging offside from the middle. Not requiring them at all also rules out the complications involving dissent, conflicts of interest, and the fear of putting an innocent adult in the firing line.
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I think being an "outsider" to this situation, you have a good point, having CAR is what you know, and what your teams know, if you look at it from the outside, its a bit farcical. Yes I get that the referee takes the ultimate decision, but, why on earth for even one second would anyone expect a random punter , (affiliated to a team!!) to make a judgement call on an offside, as you rightly say, its a complex law, and experienced neutral ARs have to be at top of their game with some calls in a game, so what chance does Big Dave have !
Can I ask anyone who is duty bound to use CAR, is there an actual reason as to why??
Is it because you are not deemed fit enough to be up with play, in which case, should you be out there at all?
Is it because someone decrees you need as much help as possible, so, in that case, surely you also need help with off the ball VC behind your back and so on?
If its about positioning, well, acting yourself, you will not be in the perfect position to call every free kick, yet, am sure what a competent referee will do is optimise viewing angles, the same principle can be applied to offside?
Ever had a one on one from say half way line and ball was played from 18yard box and you are running like mad to catch up, you know if you cant get there directly, you get there on an angle to give you as good as view on the incident as possible?
Small tip given to grass roots refs here, given you should not be too far away from where you should be, if you are going to blow for offside and you are not in the perfect position....delay the whistle slightly, but sprint to where you should be....give an slightly extended blow and hey presto, when the players stop and look round, you are kinda where you should be to call the offside ?!
Am old school but running the old diagonal does not often let you down, wider you are, more you see, and indeed you can be the "2nd last defender" , I guess it depends if you can do that run for 90 mins, I can, and whilst I would never claim to get every offside right in a game, I can certainly claim that I will be in a good enough position to make my call, and being in that good position will "buy" you 1. maybe 2 close calls, the other 4 5 6 offsides in the game, you will get correct.
 
It's always interesting to hear how other referees handle this, and I must admit it's taken me a while to see the relative absurdity of CARs. It's assumed that misconduct etc. cannot simply be taken on trust, whereas the referee is in a position to assess the accuracy of the line calls. That is partially true, but I still think it lulls you into a false sense of security. There was not much, if anything, on positioning for offside/corners etc. when I took my course. Perhaps that is because CARs are taken for granted as part of the refereeing model in this county, and all the high-stakes matches will have NARs.
I would like to self-educate where positioning is concerned--your summary is a useful starting point--because if I ever went for promotion, I believe that would let me down.
 
I find it bizarre that a non qualified sponge man can flag for a potentially match winning goal/non goal (very very important call ) and something as referee you have no excuse for not having a say on , yet, an act of VC behind your back, which you factually cannot see yet the CAR does, cannot be acted on......am sure there is merit somewhere but I really don't see it.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
I think being an "outsider" to this situation, you have a good point, having CAR is what you know, and what your teams know, if you look at it from the outside, its a bit farcical. Yes I get that the referee takes the ultimate decision, but, why on earth for even one second would anyone expect a random punter , (affiliated to a team!!) to make a judgement call on an offside, as you rightly say, its a complex law, and experienced neutral ARs have to be at top of their game with some calls in a game, so what chance does Big Dave have !
Can I ask anyone who is duty bound to use CAR, is there an actual reason as to why??
Is it because you are not deemed fit enough to be up with play, in which case, should you be out there at all?
Is it because someone decrees you need as much help as possible, so, in that case, surely you also need help with off the ball VC behind your back and so on?
If its about positioning, well, acting yourself, you will not be in the perfect position to call every free kick, yet, am sure what a competent referee will do is optimise viewing angles, the same principle can be applied to offside?
Ever had a one on one from say half way line and ball was played from 18yard box and you are running like mad to catch up, you know if you cant get there directly, you get there on an angle to give you as good as view on the incident as possible?
Small tip given to grass roots refs here, given you should not be too far away from where you should be, if you are going to blow for offside and you are not in the perfect position....delay the whistle slightly, but sprint to where you should be....give an slightly extended blow and hey presto, when the players stop and look round, you are kinda where you should be to call the offside ?!
Am old school but running the old diagonal does not often let you down, wider you are, more you see, and indeed you can be the "2nd last defender" , I guess it depends if you can do that run for 90 mins, I can, and whilst I would never claim to get every offside right in a game, I can certainly claim that I will be in a good enough position to make my call, and being in that good position will "buy" you 1. maybe 2 close calls, the other 4 5 6 offsides in the game, you will get correct.
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This is a very strange point to make? As you say, top neutral officials are still expected to be in line with the 2nd last defender in order to make an informed decision - so how is a single referee supposed to be in the correct position to judge offside for two lines at the same time? Surely the best you're doing a lot of the time is taking an educated guess? And if that's the case, how is there a problem with using a CAR to help you make that educated guess?
 
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