A&H

On the Whistle

But you can’t change the restart of play.

If the ball goes out for a throw to team A, and before play has been restarted a player from team A headbutts a player from team B you can’t cancel the throw and award a free kick.

The same principle applies here, the ball isn’t in play so you would go for a retake.

That isn't the same principle though. For your example, the ball is out of play because it has not been thrown back into the field of play.

In @GraemeS example the ball is in play from a FK when it is kicked and clearly moves. So when the ball is kicked at me, it is in play as soon as it moves and therefore I can give a direct free kick along with the red card.

And on the OP, I think it all depends on the referee on the day and the atmosphere of the game. I would be equally comfortable selling a retake and a YC or simply a retake.
 
The Referee Store
So, if you placed the ball for a FK, started to pace out the wall, felt the ball hit your head, immediately turned round and saw one player laughing at you and no-one else anywhere near where you placed the ball seconds ago you would do nothing because you hadn't seen the ball kicked? Really?

Just for your peace of mind I will change my post to "If I felt that the ball hitting me in the back of the head had been done deliberately and I was 100% certain who the kicker was or one of the other neutral officials who may or may not have been officiating informed me who the kicker was or the kicker him or herself owned up I wouldn't caution I would dismiss" ...not that any of this is relevant to the point being discussed.



Am sure we have all been party to the off the ball punch where we have not seen it but we are sure it was blue 5. And you cant be 100 per cent on what you have not seen, although those super powers would come in handy for officiating
 
I think RC for VC my wait for the whistle nullifies the restart of play being simply ball touched and moved.



Happy to be corrected
 
Thanks UKColt, that was basically my point. I am not correcting others as such, but the LOTG mention ball coming into play/being touched and clearly moved, so perhaps whether the whistle has been blown or not shouldn't determine the restart or the live status of the ball. When misconduct is not incidental to the set piece, but is performed through the kick/throw, my claim is that the LOTG don't force us, at least, to use the 'according to previous decision' clause. This is what Peter Grove taught me with regard to a throw-in illegally taken, but I don't think there is a conceptual distinction between throw-in, corner or free kick here.
Also happy to have feedback.
 
If a player intentionally kicks the ball at me, or another player, using excessive force from a FK then I am giving a red and reversing the FK whether I told them to wait for my whistle or not.
 
The referee is the arbiter of when play starts and when play stops.......Law 5 "The referee.....supervises and/or indicates the restart of play".

So, if you've indicated that the FK is to be taken "on the whistle" then play does not restart until you blow the whistle, therefore a FK taken before that point is not valid and play has not restarted.

Although given recent amendments to the LOTG if you deemed the ball striking you in the back of the head is VC, that would be an offence committed against someone and the restart for that is DFK, so you could overturn the original FK and award it the other way.
 
If a player intentionally kicks the ball at me, or another player, using excessive force from a FK then I am giving a red and reversing the FK whether I told them to wait for my whistle or not.


So you are basing your tolerance or acceptance of the next point of play on whether or not its a "bad" thing that happens?
By your stance, if you make it clear its on whistle and he scores, you are choosing to bring it back, but if you make it clear its on the whistle and he blasts it into someone, you are reversing your take on it
That's a> not consistent b> not correct although c> its what most would like to do
 
Agreed, it's not internally consistent (yet maybe the laws aren't in the first place), but I think it's what most referees would do. There's also the complication, as you hint at, of whether the act must be deemed careless/reckless/excessive force. As long as the ball has come into play by being clearly moved, irrespective of the subsequent sanction, I now think the offending player concedes a DFK, thus forfeiting his/her right to a retake, if (and only if) misconduct is committed through the taking of the set piece itself.

Supervises and/or indicates the restart of play is not exactly akin to 'no whistle'='dead ball', after all the whistle doesn't necessarily stop play in all situations (otherwise quick free kicks would never be allowed).
 
it must be the way I word things.....

OP is about a restart of play on the whistle. If you make it clear that play will not restart until the whistle and someone plays the ball, then, you go back to the place where ball was, as you have not blown whistle to restart play

nobody is suggesting at every set piece or after every ball out of play that a whistle is used.

if you make it clear to wait for whistle then carry out with the next sequence of play regardless (goal, red card and then dfk for vc) or so on, then you have eliminated the whole stance of making it clear you will restart on the whistle in the first place. Supervising the restart is either just letting the ball be put back into play, or, on occasion, making it clear that a whistle will be used to signal the restart of play.

Play stops for a simple trip on half way line. Your attention is drawn to team wanting a sub. So, you go "peep peep peep", please wait, blue sub. you turn round and hey, whites have since taken the free kick and scored. It cant happen, as you are supervising the restart of play and you would not surely allow the goal THEN the sub. If your choice of supervising a particular restart is to use the whistle (ideally having made it clear that you were doing thus), then play cannot legally restart until you give the whistle !
 
Agreed, it's not internally consistent (yet maybe the laws aren't in the first place), but I think it's what most referees would do. There's also the complication, as you hint at, of whether the act must be deemed careless/reckless/excessive force. As long as the ball has come into play by being clearly moved, irrespective of the subsequent sanction, I now think the offending player concedes a DFK, thus forfeiting his/her right to a retake, if (and only if) misconduct is committed through the taking of the set piece itself.

Supervises and/or indicates the restart of play is not exactly akin to 'no whistle'='dead ball', after all the whistle doesn't necessarily stop play in all situations (otherwise quick free kicks would never be allowed).

And who said it was?

What I was illustrating is that the referee is the arbiter of when play is started or stopped, so by declaring a FK to be "on the whistle" it is clear that play is stopped until the whistle restarts it.
 
it must be the way I word things.....

OP is about a restart of play on the whistle. If you make it clear that play will not restart until the whistle and someone plays the ball, then, you go back to the place where ball was, as you have not blown whistle to restart play

nobody is suggesting at every set piece or after every ball out of play that a whistle is used.

if you make it clear to wait for whistle then carry out with the next sequence of play regardless (goal, red card and then dfk for vc) or so on, then you have eliminated the whole stance of making it clear you will restart on the whistle in the first place. Supervising the restart is either just letting the ball be put back into play, or, on occasion, making it clear that a whistle will be used to signal the restart of play.

Play stops for a simple trip on half way line. Your attention is drawn to team wanting a sub. So, you go "peep peep peep", please wait, blue sub. you turn round and hey, whites have since taken the free kick and scored. It cant happen, as you are supervising the restart of play and you would not surely allow the goal THEN the sub. If your choice of supervising a particular restart is to use the whistle (ideally having made it clear that you were doing thus), then play cannot legally restart until you give the whistle !

I agree with all of that, except where I made this qualification (which I think the wording of the law justifies):
if (and only if) misconduct is committed through the taking of the set piece itself
I believe that takes precedence, but I think this is an aspect of law where the restart is legitimately at your discretion. As per giving advantage and so forth.
 
It certainly WAS a mandatory caution a few seasons ago
Not so, it's never even been so much as mentioned in the Laws.
I've got PDFs of the Laws back to 2007 and it's not mentioned in them either as being a caution, neither precautionary nor mandatory.
I'll see your 2007 and raise (lower?) you to 2002. I also have copies of the minutes of every IFAB meeting from 1886 to 2003 and lists of all the amendments since then. There is no time at which taking a free kick before the referee has whistled has ever been mentioned in the LotG as a cautionable offence.
 
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