A&H

Junior/Youth Player walking away when trying to caution him

If the opposition had taken exception he'd have gone. Since the kicker was the one who laughed loudest after a double take as the player ran across and took the ball off his foot then I felt I could show I was (at least partially) human and let it go with a lecture. As I said, I thought he'd be going soon anyway but he got his act together and stayed on, and it turned into a pretty good game.
 
The Referee Store
Yampy said:
Just a thought on this situation, could you have cautioned the player twice here?
I can't see any sanction for infringements under Law 8 but is there a case for 'Delaying the Restart' under Law 12 and then the subsequent caution for dissent?
  • excessively delaying a restart
  • kicking or carrying the ball away, or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play
Remember, the ball is not in play until it is kicked at the kick-off.
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I think what Ciley Myrus said about less dissent when your decision making is good is right. I had a poor game 2 weeks ago and had more dissent but my games since were better and have had a lot less dissent. I know it isn't black and white but I do think Ciley has a very good point.
 
Tino Best said:
I think what Ciley Myrus said about less dissent when your decision making is good is right. I had a poor game 2 weeks ago and had more dissent but my games since were better and have had a lot less dissent. I know it isn't black and white but I do think Ciley has a very good point.
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So what you're saying is that dissent is the referees fault?
 
Padfoot said:
So what you're saying is that dissent is the referees fault?
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No. Not at all

I had a spare hour today. So. And of course this is not the rubber stamped global must be right basis. But. Here is my findings from last season, as observer

I watched officially 25 games.

2 were marked poor. One game 5 dissent. One game 4

6 satisfactory. 4 games 4 dissent. 1 game 3. 1 game 1

12 good

3 very good. 1 game 1 dissent

2 games excellent. 0 dissent


So based on what i have experience of, Whether its me, the 25 diff refs or how many sets of players....

The better the performance, the less the dissent

I left the good reports out as i wanted a top and bottom equation.



If i find an hour later i will find my last season of observations as a ref but i already know the pattern...
 
yes someone somewhere will say an orange aint orange

But overall.....big picture......

Position. Yes. Credibilty. Yes. Correct call. Yes. Equals LESS dissent

Nothing is black and white.

Am sure we have all given stonewall pens where someone is going to moan then the big captain goes....thats a stonewaller...

22 players out there, 22 diff mentalitys, attitudes and personalitys...

You will never get 22 out of 22. But 18 or so out of 22 is good shooting
 
GraemeS said:
Even in leagues without team sheets, you would usually ask for a list of subs pre-match, but even this practice is going away with roll-on-roll-off subs. Every league I ref on either has team sheets or roll-on-roll-off (if not both), so you can certainly get away without asking for names, even if it's not exactly encouraged.
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Puzzled by that. Its clear in the laws, and always has been, that names of subs MUST be given to referee before match starts. Anyone not named in this way can't play. Team sheets or not, rolling subs or not - can't see why it makes any difference to that mandatory requirement.
 
At youth I never get a team sheet, at OA I always get a team sheet. Dissent is not the refs fault, but if you are having a poor game, maybe being inconsistent, I think the dissent level does go up, but you can also be having a blinder and still get dissent. Ciley said it was a trend which he could see, looking back at my games the games I had most dissent for were the games I wasn't happy with my performance, but there are always exception. In a perfect world there wouldn't be any dissent even if we are wrong as we are only human.
Look at Rugby what is worse dissent or eye gouging?
 
Ok I dug out 2009 ish

I was officially observed and reported on 13 times over season

I got.....7.9 2 times...2 KMI, called wrong says observer.....3 dissent both games

8.4 8 times......this is the medium/average/acceptable mark.....but....in my 8 games....in total..4 dissent..

2 times....8.5, 1 game, 1 dissent...(and it was to far side NAR).........other game 0 dissent

1 time 8.7 no dissent



so.......only based on what I found as ref..better my display....less the dissent ...
 
Ciley Myrus said:
No. Not at all

I had a spare hour today. So. And of course this is not the rubber stamped global must be right basis. But. Here is my findings from last season, as observer

I watched officially 25 games.

2 were marked poor. One game 5 dissent. One game 4

6 satisfactory. 4 games 4 dissent. 1 game 3. 1 game 1

12 good

3 very good. 1 game 1 dissent

2 games excellent. 0 dissent


So based on what i have experience of, Whether its me, the 25 diff refs or how many sets of players....

The better the performance, the less the dissent

I left the good reports out as i wanted a top and bottom equation.



If i find an hour later i will find my last season of observations as a ref but i already know the pattern...
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Apparently 85% of all statistics are made up.

Those figures are largely meaningless.....what was your criteria for "dissent"? How many cautions issued for dissent? Stats completely missing for the 12 "good" games?
 
to get a good average I took the middle/average ones out

consider them as the norm

My criteria was whether or not the ref had cautioned for dissent?

if you put the middle games in, you create a security blanket that all is ok..so in modern maths you take the worst and the best and work off that

one guy in the middle bracket may have had 6 cautions....another 6 may have had none.....they equal themselves out.....
 
you may portray a Jedi Knight but am the real deal.....am the ball which wrecks....your magic cloth and plastic light up toy has no affect on me
 
Ciley Myrus said:
to get a good average I took the middle/average ones out

consider them as the norm

My criteria was whether or not the ref had cautioned for dissent?

if you put the middle games in, you create a security blanket that all is ok..so in modern maths you take the worst and the best and work off that

one guy in the middle bracket may have had 6 cautions....another 6 may have had none.....they equal themselves out.....
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Ah right, so you simply counted the amount of dissent cautions issued in those games? Which renders the figures even more meaningless given the massive variance in referees "tolerance" levels for dissent. It's quite possible that the 2 "excellent" games had just as much dissent as one of the "poor", but the referees chose not to caution...for whatever reason!
 
Ok and i marked them excellent for missing blatent dissent! Is that a slight on me or the guys am watching?

Am asked to go watch for a reason

My reports go to top brass for a reason


No amount of your word bending will alter that
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Ok and i marked them excellent for missing blatent dissent! Is that a slight on me or the guys am watching?

Am asked to go watch for a reason

My reports go to top brass for a reason


No amount of your word bending will alter that
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By your own admission you simply posted the amount of cards for dissent in those games.....that doesn't prove anything about the amount of dissent that may, or may not, have been present. There might have been dissent that you missed.....us observers don't always see or hear everything that goes on.
Either way, simply posting the amount of cautions proves nothing. In fact, it's almost into desperation territory, trying to prop up a very shaky argument that has little or no basis in reality.
 
Ok well, given thats the facts, and given am observing to this day, if I was observing missed cautions for dissent I think I would be taken off games by now


Proof is in the pudding, am consudered suitable to be out this weekend observing

So I will take my Association managers stance more than I will yours.....
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Ok well, given thats the facts, and given am observing to this day, if I was observing missed cautions for dissent I think I would be taken off games by now


Proof is in the pudding, am consudered suitable to be out this weekend observing

So I will take my Association managers stance more than I will yours.....
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Hmmmm, not sure if serious?

The only "facts" that you given us (and lets be honest here, you could just as easily be making them up, we'd never know...) is the amount of dissent cautions you witnessed in those games......proves nothing about your spurious claims about 100% accuracy equalling no dissent because there is no indicator of how where the line was drawn.

No one is saying you go around missing loads of dissent cautions when you are observing........I will however suggest that you are not omnipotent, all seeing or all hearing of everything that is done or said during a game you observe so there remains the possibility that there was dissent that wasn't cautioned, but rather "managed" out, which is not reflected in your figures, and therefore proves nothing.
 
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