A&H

Promotion 17/18

I was under the impression the fa were trying to drive out these lazy style of reports. It should be more specific about times, actions and the why's.

On corner kicks I vary my position each time. I have been known to go to the back post(not on it obviously) and arc movement during the corner phase. You get a great view of gk fouls/pushing. It does mean a bit more work if the ball breaks, but then you need the opportunity to show off a sprint or two
 
The Referee Store
That mark is very harsh, looking at the comments I'd have that at 73 or even 74. There is not a single negative word in section 1, and lots of positive ones, yet he has given you 3.5. Same goes for communication.

In terms of corners, observers have different views and this often generates a healthy debate at training sessions. With neutral assistants the areas where you stand is pretty much mapped out, but the key thing is you are seen to move whilst the ball is in the air. I personally like to see referees adjust their position based on where previous corners have landed. Using an example, on corners from the right wing they are all being taken by a left footer, so inswinging, and are aimed at the near post. In that case I would absolutely support the referee coming to the edge of the D closest to the taker, rather that the other side which is traditional. If the first challenge for the ball is always at the near post then he will have a much better view from that position than from the other side when he will be looking through loads of players.

When you are on your own opinion is polarised. Some observers prefer you being in the same position as if with neutral assistants, but I don't personally. For me the most important decision will be judging if the ball has crossed the line, perhaps because the ball has gone out and back in, but more importantly whether it has crossed the line for a goal or not. You just cannot credibly make that decision 18 yards from the goal line. But that is just my opinion.
 
I was under the impression the fa were trying to drive out these lazy style of reports. It should be more specific about times, actions and the why's.

5-4 observations are done by CFAs though, and there aren't enough observers to go round as it is, so unless they are really, really bad, they won't get booted off.
 
No timed examples, no indication of what you missed/got wrong by not doing what you were supposed to do or where you were supposed to be, not a lot of developmental advice.

So far this has been about the report; what were you disappointed in yourself about?

Well when I first got the feedback I was disappointed and felt that I let myself down. Especially seeing that I had a mock observation for development purposes by my coach and mentor. In that I dropped the ball in terms of 2 KMI and was marked down in application of law for them.
Whereas again my communication, positioning workrate and fitness were my strong suits. I got a 68 in that mock one, therefore to only get one point more after I revised and checked my performance in the games between the mock and the proper observation stings!!! What p**** me even more is nothing he said in either our HT talk or post match debrief suggested such a grade :rage::rage::rage:
 
My 74 in Dec didn't look too different, one of the differences being the difficulty of the game. I had neutrals on the line and it was a supply cup game.

Where I am we were only assessed on games with neutrals as those with club ar's are deemed too low a standard to test out mettle. The wait for whether I have been promoted to a 4 is agony!!
 
My 74 in Dec didn't look too different, one of the differences being the difficulty of the game. I had neutrals on the line and it was a supply cup game.

Where I am we were only assessed on games with neutrals as those with club ar's are deemed too low a standard to test out mettle. The wait for whether I have been promoted to a 4 is agony!!
You won't be promoted to a 4 on the back of your marks and games. You may be nominated for 4 and if The FA decide they need you, you'll be invited to a fitness test. You then have to pass the fitness test before you get your Level 4. Don't take it as a given that because you got the marks, you've got the promotion.
 
Well when I first got the feedback I was disappointed and felt that I let myself down. Especially seeing that I had a mock observation for development purposes by my coach and mentor. In that I dropped the ball in terms of 2 KMI and was marked down in application of law for them.
Whereas again my communication, positioning workrate and fitness were my strong suits. I got a 68 in that mock one, therefore to only get one point more after I revised and checked my performance in the games between the mock and the proper observation stings!!! What p**** me even more is nothing he said in either our HT talk or post match debrief suggested such a grade :rage::rage::rage:
So there's a trend appearing... 2 reports and 2 sub standard performance in AOL. So what caused them? Failure to apply? Applied incorrectly? Misinterpretation? Not seeing the offence? Being in the wrong place? Having a bad angle? Proximity not good enough? None of this is your observer's fault.

I have to say that in my experience your promotion season is over with that mark. You would need a 77 to drag you back in contention or a pair of 75s. Based on what you've said about the marked game and mentioned game, maybe you're not ready?

Sorry to be harsh but that's my honest and experienced opinion.
 
You won't be promoted to a 4 on the back of your marks and games. You may be nominated for 4 and if The FA decide they need you, you'll be invited to a fitness test. You then have to pass the fitness test before you get your Level 4. Don't take it as a given that because you got the marks, you've got the promotion.
Its not even guaranteed by meeting all the criteria. Its not an open book like 7-5 promtions. There is a requirement and that is filled by the highest ranked refs. And I believe the ranking is based on numerous factors with observer marks only a proportion.
 
So there's a trend appearing... 2 reports and 2 sub standard performance in AOL. So what caused them? Failure to apply? Applied incorrectly? Misinterpretation? Not seeing the offence? Being in the wrong place? Having a bad angle? Proximity not good enough? None of this is your observer's fault.

I have to say that in my experience your promotion season is over with that mark. You would need a 77 to drag you back in contention or a pair of 75s. Based on what you've said about the marked game and mentioned game, maybe you're not ready?

Sorry to be harsh but that's my honest and experienced opinion.
Thanks Brian for the honest feedback. The first mock observation, I raise my hand and admit my faults. I let the intensity of the game affect my decisions, it wasn't about positioning. It was me trying to be empathetic with players far beyond what's necessary. However in the latter game, I felt I had a solid performance overall. The observer even acknowledged it himself in our conversation, during the debrief there was no mention of missed fouls or wrong application of the law whatsoever. The only 3 comments for development were getting caught on a few occasions in a pack of players and suggesting that I modify my runs to a diagonal path as it will make it easier for me. Then he pointed out that the style of play of the away team doesn't help as they are just hoofing the ball into the attacking third and hoping for the best while the home team are playing football trying to build up their game progressively. Again no mention of wrong calls or anything missed, he actually said well done for trying to change your runs and positioning in the 2nd half after our HT talk.

As for the corners that's the other one he described as horrible, and while I tried to explain that that's what I've been instructed to do by numerous observers up to this point. I acknowledged that I hear his advice loud and clear and will take his advice on board. Again no mention of wrong decisions due to the positions I took or missed incidents.
The last one was about how I administered the caution to away 6, he kept walking away even after I repeatedly asked him to meet me halfway and walked towards him. So I flashed out my YC in his direction and explained why he was cautioned as he then decided to join me and protest his caution! These were all the comments made in the debrief. Now you tell me that along with what he has written, doesn't the marks seem low?
 
Thanks Brian for the honest feedback. The first mock observation, I raise my hand and admit my faults. I let the intensity of the game affect my decisions, it wasn't about positioning. It was me trying to be empathetic with players far beyond what's necessary. However in the latter game, I felt I had a solid performance overall. The observer even acknowledged it himself in our conversation, during the debrief there was no mention of missed fouls or wrong application of the law whatsoever. The only 3 comments for development were getting caught on a few occasions in a pack of players and suggesting that I modify my runs to a diagonal path as it will make it easier for me. Then he pointed out that the style of play of the away team doesn't help as they are just hoofing the ball into the attacking third and hoping for the best while the home team are playing football trying to build up their game progressively. Again no mention of wrong calls or anything missed, he actually said well done for trying to change your runs and positioning in the 2nd half after our HT talk.

As for the corners that's the other one he described as horrible, and while I tried to explain that that's what I've been instructed to do by numerous observers up to this point. I acknowledged that I hear his advice loud and clear and will take his advice on board. Again no mention of wrong decisions due to the positions I took or missed incidents.
The last one was about how I administered the caution to away 6, he kept walking away even after I repeatedly asked him to meet me halfway and walked towards him. So I flashed out my YC in his direction and explained why he was cautioned as he then decided to join me and protest his caution! These were all the comments made in the debrief. Now you tell me that along with what he has written, doesn't the marks seem low?
Sounds like a poor quality de-brief and as mentioned the quality of the written report is not great. Also I rarely offer advice at half time as it can produce a conflict within the referee as they try to incorporate changes within properly digesting them.

Starting off at the top of your comments...

A solid performance is observer speak for not doing much to impress. As I've said elsewhere, we can only mark what we see, just as you can only referee what's in front of you. In a "solid" game, there's little opportunity for the referee to demonstrate what he or she can actually do. In games like that, there is more opportunity for little things not being done correctly standing out and having a disproportional effect on the report and mark. It means that unless something happens that allows you to clock up marks, all you can do is lose them.

Getting caught in play is something I am seeing more and more at L4 (saw it at 2B recently). It's mainly because referees are scared of missing something, so they close down on the action and as a result either compress their view (losing their peripheral vision, which makes it harder to use the trailing eye) or they collide with players and/or the ball. The solution is simple, just push further left, out to the touchline if necessary, to get the angled view of contact in the challenge.

As for the "flashed" card, this is a big no-no especially as the procedure is set out in the performance criteria. Looking at your report and your additional comments, you seem to have had a nothing happening game in which you had little opportunity to clock up marks to counter those lost for little things. It seems that at least one of those may have been your observer's foibles.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like a poor quality de-brief and as mentioned the quality of the written report is not great. Also I rarely offer advice at half time as it can produce a conflict within the referee as they try to incorporate changes within properly digesting them.

Starting off at the top of your comments...

A solid performance is observer speak for not doing much to impress. As I've said elsewhere, we can only mark what we see, just as you can only referee what's in front of you. In a "solid" game, there's little opportunity for the referee to demonstrate what he or she can actually do. In games like that, there is more opportunity for little things not being one correctly standing out and having a disproportional effect on the report and mark. It means that unless something happens that allows you to clock up marks, all you can do is lose them.

Getting caught in play is something I am seeing more and more at L4 (saw it at 2B recently). It's mainly because referees are scared of missing something, so they close down on the action and as a result either compress their view (losing their peripheral vision, which makes it harder to use the trailing eye) or they collide with players and/or the ball. The solution is simple, just push further left, out to the touchline if necessary, to get the angled view of contact in the challenge.

As for the "flashed" card, this is a big no-no especially as the procedure is set out in the performance criteria. Looking at your report and your additional comments, you seem to have had a nothing happening game in which you had little opportunity to clock up marks to counter those lost for little things. It seems that at least one of those may have been your observer's foibles.

Thanks a lot Brian all your comments make a lot more sense that that report! Greatly appreciate it and will definitely consider these comments in my future fixtures. I want to develop and comments like this aid greatly.
 
I've had issues myself with getting caught up in play, so the advice to push further left is really useful, thanks Brian.

Second observation went well. Couple of minor things to develop (including positioning at corners!), but it seemed that he was happy with my performance within the criteria for 7-6, which is fairly limited within application of law, match control and positioning. Had a red card for DOGSO which he said that I got spot on, and that was the only KMI so hopefully the report will be fine!

The observer was also great in the level of detail he had in the debrief. He'd made pages of notes and also had a separate sheet where he'd logged every foul so the feedback was really in-depth, rather than 'you did x well' type of thing.

Nice to have two of them out of the way already (assuming this one has gone ok!)
 
Last edited:
Think left, get left, stay left. Once got told that and it helped me massively.

If the other diagonal is run, then you are like a car going down the M1 the wrong way.

But a sensible approach to take
 
[QUOTE="
I have to say that in my experience your promotion season is over with that mark. You would need a 77 to drag you back in contention or a pair of 75s. Based on what you've said about the marked game and mentioned game, maybe you're not ready?

Sorry to be harsh but that's my honest and experienced opinion.[/QUOTE]

My mate had a nightmare first 5-4 observation and got a 68, he knew he was bad. He called me and said that's it promotion is over, my reply was bo*****s it is. He pulled it back and his next 4 observations meant he met the criteria and has been nominated by the County.

You can pull this round, it will be hard, no doubt about it but it can be done.

Where i do agree with Brian is the "mock" game you also got a 68 so there are clearly areas of your game that require vast improvement. Before your next game read those observations again and really get to work on those development's.
 
Got the 2nd report last night. Standard expected in application of law and positioning, above standard in match control, so on the right track. Little bit annoyed at myself as one of the points of development was the same as my first observation, so I obviously didn't do enough to correct it, but will correct it next time.

My main worry now is making sure I get to 20 middles before the end of September.
 
Got the 2nd report last night. Standard expected in application of law and positioning, above standard in match control, so on the right track. Little bit annoyed at myself as one of the points of development was the same as my first observation, so I obviously didn't do enough to correct it, but will correct it next time.

My main worry now is making sure I get to 20 middles before the end of September.

are you going for the double jump @UKColt ?? how many middles have you done this promotion season?
 
are you going for the double jump @UKColt ?? how many middles have you done this promotion season?

Yeah, so it's 20 required between March 1st - September 30th.

This weekend took me to 6, and I have games confirmed for Saturday and Sunday next week as well so that takes me to 8. April is going to be a bit more patchy as the season starts to wind down. I'll feel pretty comfortable if I can finish this league season with 12 or 13 done, as then summer tournaments and early September should get me to 20. Though I have been told that if your observations are good enough but you're a game or two short, there is some leniency applied.
 
Back
Top