A&H

RC in a friendly

@josh91 thats good, the argument isn't about your question anymore.

Padfoot can be a bit blunt at times, and certainly doesn't mince his words, but some people like to argue with him, simply because he's the one who's said something, rather than what he said.

Welcome to the forum, and I look forward to hearing how your second game goes, have you been assigned a mentor yet?
 
The Referee Store
Thanks, it's on Sunday.

I'm still in touch with a couple of the guys who ran my course, and I think I'll be joining an academy at some point, who will take on the mentor role.
 
Hmm you should be assigned a mentor after you've finished your course, and will watch (3?) of your 6 games.

In my county we were given the details of the mentor co-ordinator for our particular area who we would then contact and who would then arrange mentors.

I didn't get a mentor as my mentor coordinator was like the scarlet pimpernel.

But I was lucky that I knew some people who could watch some of my games.

I'd recommend joining your local RA association if you haven't already, they might have some members who'd be willing to come and watch some of your games.
 
GraemeS said:
Having two managers come up and tell you they've agreed to do something different to the LOTG is a difficult situation without the experience behind you to know it's not a good idea. It's also distinct from bottling out of showing the red card in the first place, which isn't what happened and would have been concerning - but still wouldn't justify assuming that character won't get built over time.

I'm actually not arguing with your second paragraph point. But I think 1 game is far too soon to make that judgement call. What matters more than anything is learning from your mistakes - and you can't tell after a single match if Josh has done that or not! I can't think of any justifiable reason for feeling a need to make that call after one match. And I certainly don't think it's appropriate from someone who claims to be in a position of authority such as mentor or observer. That's what you need to be apologising for.
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Well....life isn't fair.

Just because you cannot see any justifiable reason, whereas I can, does not mean you are entitled to an apology.

And just to be clear.....there is no "claim" about it. I am an observer & mentor, as well as various other roles within football and refereeing. Did you ever stop to think that maybe that the experience gained within those roles have helped shape my opinions about the charateristics of referees and how/what can be developed through experience? Or what personal characteristics a referee need to have from the outset.....or how those emotionally not suited to the whistle suffer because they feel under pressure to carry on when what they really needed was someone to make them feel comfortable about not being able to handle it?

I doubt it.....I think you just immediately went on the offensive because you saw an opportunity to have a pop at Padfoot......without thinking about the reasoning or experience behind what was posted.....hell, you couldn't even get the context or content correct of what I posted!

So, no, you won't be getting an apology.
 
I am wondering if local fa's could be doing more to prepare new refs for their first games.

The course is all well and good at going through laws and how to blow your whistle. Does it adequately prepare refs for the nuances of first games and how to handle friendlies, oa, youth, women's etc. It is a fairly daunting prospect to suddenly be in charge of a game- little or no give is there from the players , none of them will allow for newness.

What would I have done? I can't say because, thankfully, I have never been in that position but I am not so sure I wouldn't have come up with a similar solution.

The lesson here is that there are no such things as friendlies for refs. Set your stall out before the game and don't compromise on the laws.
 
EDIT
I've just edited some content out of this post as I've seen Ross' post above (written whilst I was writing mine), and he's right.
Not necessarily after the last word, but I suspect there is now little to be gained from continuing the thread.
Red cards to all of us for arguing, I say!
END EDIT


Believe or not, I do actually respect Padfoot, I have learned a lot from him and he is undoubtedly a better and more experienced referee than I can ever hope to be. However, it frustrates me that too often his knowledge and wisdom is diminished through a somewhat dogmatic and unflexible approach in the way he communicates.

This thread should be a lesson to all of us, to make sure we fully understand the nuances of what has been written, to not leap to conclusions and be far more empathetic towards each other - no one is compelled to visit this forum, the very fact that any of us are here is testament that we want to improve as referees and help each other improve as referees.
 
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Padfoot said:
Well....life isn't fair.

Just because you cannot see any justifiable reason, whereas I can, does not mean you are entitled to an apology.

And just to be clear.....there is no "claim" about it. I am an observer & mentor, as well as various other roles within football and refereeing. Did you ever stop to think that maybe that the experience gained within those roles have helped shape my opinions about the charateristics of referees and how/what can be developed through experience? Or what personal characteristics a referee need to have from the outset.....or how those emotionally not suited to the whistle suffer because they feel under pressure to carry on when what they really needed was someone to make them feel comfortable about not being able to handle it?

I doubt it.....I think you just immediately went on the offensive because you saw an opportunity to have a pop at Padfoot......without thinking about the reasoning or experience behind what was posted.....hell, you couldn't even get the context or content correct of what I posted!

So, no, you won't be getting an apology.
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I honestly couldn't give a flying **** about your "experience" - if it's experience of telling referees to consider giving up refereeing after one match then it's experience that the refereeing community would be better off without.
 
GraemeS said:
I honestly couldn't give a flying **** about your "experience" - if it's experience of telling referees to consider giving up refereeing after one match then it's experience that the refereeing community would be better off without.
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Oh dear....another point gains more altitude than a Courtois penalty as it passes over your cranium.

Can't be bothered to explain things any further to you....clearly you have made your mind up and decided that you are right and everyone else is wrong..........

Are you sure refereeing is for you? You seem a tad sensitive?
 
zarathustra said:
Padfoot can be a bit blunt at times, and certainly doesn't mince his words, but some people like to argue with him, simply because he's the one who's said something, rather than what he said.
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For the sake of clarity, I (and a number of others on here) end up arguing with @Padfoot not because we like it, certainly not because he's said something (that's the whole point of this place!) and not even normally because of what he says (there's often a lot of sense hidden in there), It is because the how the points are put across is so often infuriating, unhelpful, counter productive and divisive.

For the record, my opinion is that we as a community should be encouraging all new referees to allow themselves plenty of time to calmly assess their level of motivation and competency. So asking someone to even consider whether refereeing is actually for them on the basis of just their first game is ridiculously premature in any circumstances ..... but even more so in a situation where someone like Josh has not only spotted that an offense warrants a red card but then has also come onto this forum to request advice about the nuamces of friendlies vs competitive games.

Onwards and upwards @josh91 :)
 
Russell Jones said:
For the sake of clarity, I (and a number of others on here) end up arguing with @Padfoot not because we like it, certainly not because he's said something (that's the whole point of this place!) and not even normally because of what he says (there's often a lot of sense hidden in there), It is because the how the points are put across is so often infuriating, unhelpful, counter productive and divisive.

For the record, my opinion is that we as a community should be encouraging all new referees to allow themselves plenty of time to calmly assess their level of motivation and competency. So asking someone to even consider whether refereeing is actually for them on the basis of just their first game is ridiculously premature in any circumstances ..... but even more so in a situation where someone like Josh has not only spotted that an offense warrants a red card but then has also come onto this forum to request advice about the nuamces of friendlies vs competitive games.

Onwards and upwards @josh91 :)
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I'll ask you the same question I asked previously then.....at what point is it appropriate to ask someone to consider whether they are emotionally suitable for refereeing?
 
As I understand it, the whole point of the initial 5 or 6 matches before becoming a Level 7 is to put a proper toe in the water and then reflect on experiences both good & bad. So I'd guess that all officials would / should at that point be considering their suitability for refereeing (emotionally, physically and in any other sense). Make sense?
 
Russell Jones said:
As I understand it, the whole point of the initial 5 or 6 matches before becoming a Level 7 is to put a proper toe in the water and then reflect on experiences both good & bad. So I'd guess that all officials would / should at that point be considering their suitability for refereeing (emotionally, physically and in any other sense). Make sense?
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I would agree that physically and competency wise, referees do develop over time......but the emotional strength to deal with the interactions that we have as referees? That needs to be robust from the outset.....although the little nuances and tricks we use to manipulate those interactions to reduce the potential severity of the negative feedback from players/managers will develop over time......a persons inner strength to deal with it all will not largely change.

You have to be fearless from the outset.....to have that courage to make the tough call, to stand firm in that decision and not to bow to pressure or intimidation.....to be able to brazen out that decision regardless of how confident or not you feel in it, you've given it now stick by it.
 
Padfoot said:
I would agree that physically and competency wise, referees do develop over time......but the emotional strength to deal with the interactions that we have as referees? That needs to be robust from the outset.....although the little nuances and tricks we use to manipulate those interactions to reduce the potential severity of the negative feedback from players/managers will develop over time......a persons inner strength to deal with it all will not largely change.

You have to be fearless from the outset.....to have that courage to make the tough call, to stand firm in that decision and not to bow to pressure or intimidation.....to be able to brazen out that decision regardless of how confident or not you feel in it, you've given it now stick by it.
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That's your belief. It's not a fact.
 
zarathustra said:
Hmm you should be assigned a mentor after you've finished your course, and will watch (3?) of your 6 games.

In my county we were given the details of the mentor co-ordinator for our particular area who we would then contact and who would then arrange mentors.

I didn't get a mentor as my mentor coordinator was like the scarlet pimpernel.

But I was lucky that I knew some people who could watch some of my games.

I'd recommend joining your local RA association if you haven't already, they might have some members who'd be willing to come and watch some of your games.
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I did my 6 games with no mentor and no observations despite being involved with 2 counties. I might be rubbish or I might not be but until I get a phone call from my RDO I will keep reffing the way I have all last season including cards in youth games!
 
GraemeS said:
That's your belief. It's not a fact.
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Yes, quite correct.

My belief formed out of my experiences of the many years of observing, mentoring, working with, and generally being involved with referees, watching them start, stop, return to the game, leave the game again......hearing their experiences, thoughts, feelings, high points and low points....as opposed to an arbitrary belief plucked out of thin air just for the hell of it.
Not forgetting the years spent working with young people. both in and out of football, watching how they develop, socially and emotionally, etc etc

But yes......when all is said & done, it's just my belief........
 
Tino Best said:
I did my 6 games with no mentor and no observations despite being involved with 2 counties. I might be rubbish or I might not be but until I get a phone call from my RDO I will keep reffing the way I have all last season including cards in youth games!
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Good for you, I didn't get any official mentors either, I had to sort that out myself, and I am sure that there are plenty of other referees who are or were in a similar boat.

However, I strongly believe that in order to help new referees put the their best foot forward then they should, ideally, have a mentor for at least 3 of their first games, definitely on their first.

But obviously due to manning levels this isn't going to be easy for many to achieve.

I have applied to go on my mentors course in a couple of weeks, but need to wait to find out from my CFA if I've been accepted.
 
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