A&H

Spurs vs. Chelsea

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SLI39

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Some interesting decisions for Martin Atkinson in the last few minutes of the first half at Wembley:

A correct penalty call for me: I don't think Moses dived because he reached the ball first and then was left with nowhere to go by Son. There's an argument that Moses went down easily, but the fact he didn't let the ball run across indicates he wasn't merely playing for contact. Tricky one, though

As for Lloris, I know replays have shown he didn't handle outside the penalty area, but has he committed an IDFK offence by fumbling and then picking up ball again, even if he didn't release it from his possession intentionally?
 
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SLI39 said:
Some interesting decisions for Martin Atkinson in the last few minutes of the first half at Wembley:

A correct penalty call for me: I don't think Moses dived because he reached the ball first and then was left with nowhere to go by Son. There's an argument that Moses went down easily, but the fact he didn't let the ball run across indicates he wasn't merely playing for contact. Tricky one, though

As for Lloris, I know replays have shown he didn't handle outside the penalty area, but has he committed an IDFK offence by fumbling and then picking up ball again, even if he didn't release it from his possession intentionally?
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Happen to be on the otherside here. Think a dive from moses. Its good skill to go past but he's basically fell over Sons legs.

I thought the replay showed it very marginally outside the box but could the assistant have been able to call it, I dont know.

Dont think IDFK as the first effort can surely be considered a "save" for me.

Funny old game aint it... :p
 
Yeah, that's mainly why I asked. I knew there would be debate!
I may well be swayed to your side by further viewings.
That's true about the 'save'--I always forget the laws extend that term beyond what the layman would usually call a 'save'.
 
Certainly no shortage of incident so far.

No doubt Moses made a meal of it, but Son was an idiot for diving in so early with little chance of winning the ball.

Atkinson and his assistant also missed a blatant rugby tackle by Dembele on Willian.
 
Definitely handled outside the area.....whole of the ball was outside the line.......buts that with the advantage of seeing it in super slo mo from 2 different angles......no way the AR can be expected to pick that up from 40 yds away.

Moses...hmmmm....first shout was penalty.....having seen the replays.....leaning much more towards exaggerated contact/dive. Could've easily avoided Son had he wanted to.....dragged his foot to ensure contact.
 
I only watched from 60 mins. Spurs had the ball for 15 mins and then... wham bam thank you ma'am... two stonking strikes and the double is on...
 
Obviously delighted with result, honestly thought Tottenham would win comfortably today.

Extremely painfull trying to explain to clueless numpties on social media including Chelsea fans that a keeper handling the ball outside his area is not an automatic red card! :wall:
 
Mooseybaby said:
Obviously delighted with result, honestly thought Tottenham would win comfortably today.

Extremely painfull trying to explain to clueless numpties on social media including Chelsea fans that a keeper handling the ball outside his area is not an automatic red card! :wall:
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I was on the senior line for a similar incident at an academy match and I think the goalkeepers bench were certainly expecting to see red and were very surprised when the referee only showed yellow. Seems this is a misconception that happens at all levels!
 
if half the ball was outside the box and half the ball on the line/in the box, but the keeper handled the side of the ball that was outside the box would this have been ok or not ?
 
Hmm, well the penalty area line is classed as part of the penalty area.

A goal keeper cannot be penalised for handling the ball inside his own area, so this shoukd be ok.

Sure the attacking team on a sunday morning would disagree though
 
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happy whistler said:
if half the ball was outside the box and half the ball on the line/in the box, but the keeper handled the side of the ball that was outside the box would this have been ok or not ?
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A goalkeeper is allowed to handle the ball if it is inside the penalty area. An outfield player is not allowed to deliberately handle the ball if it is inside the field of play. If an outfield player were to deliberately pick up a ball that was straddling the line, making contact first with the half of the ball that was over the line, would you award the free kick? If so then for me, by applying the same logic you should not penalise the goalkeeper in the scenario you outline.

If of course, you would not award a free kick for a player handling the ball on the line in the way mentioned above, then I guess you would penalise the keeper. But for me, it would be a free kick against the outfield player and no offence by the keeper in the analogous situation.
 
Not this again!

It was always understood that the GK cannot touch the ball if his hand is outside the penalty area line. Then the Americans came up with this idea that the ball in and out of play law should apply elsewhere on the pitch, and kept changing their mind. Then Keith Hackett in "You are the ref" changed his mind. I wrote to FIFA in 2006 asking for clarification - I got no reply but IFAB then issued the diagram as to where the AR should stand for when the GK releases the ball - "The assistant referees must take a position in line with the edge of the penalty area and check that the goalkeeper does not touch the ball with his hands outside the penalty area". It seemed conclusive to me - the keeper can't use his hands outside the area, which is the simple interpretation of no-one can handle the ball except for the goalkeeper within his own penalty area.

I note that the latest diagram seems to have moved the AR a bit, and changed the (English) wording to "check that the goalkeeper does not handle the ball outside the penalty area" so maybe the "old rule advocates" are being usurped again by the "daft new rule advocates". I don't think the German version changed - the goalkeeper the ball outside the penalty area not with his hand touch.

My original email to FIFA set out the reasoning.

The “new” interpretation has several problems:
  1. Historically, the goalkeeper could handle within his own half, and presumably this did not allow a keeper to reach over the half-way line.
  2. Linguistically, the law (in all official languages) clearly means that “within the penalty area” applies to the act of handling, not the position of the ball.
  3. It makes “within the penalty area” mean something other than its plain meaning.
  4. It would mean a goalkeeper could legitimately touch a ball 20cm outside the area if the ball is “in the penalty area”, but if the ball is wholly outside the area it would be an offence, although the keeper’s hand was in exactly the same position. (Most who hold this view seem to think that a defender handling a ball “in the penalty area” should not concede a penalty unless his hand is in the penalty area, thus creating another inconsistency.)
  5. For officials, it is easier to judge whether a hand is on the ball outside the line, whereas for the new interpretation officials would need to see the edge of the ball in relation to the line and the hand in another position. In some cases it would be no more difficult that an assistant referee judging whether a ball has been kept in play, but at some angles (and without an assistant) it would be much harder to judge.

The only real argument for the new interpretation is that where the ball is over the touchline or goal line but still in play (including within the goal) any handling offence is deemed to be within the field of play.

I'll not burden you with the rest and the links to You Are The Ref, but essentially the USSF "changed its mind" on the interpretation without reference to IFAB and others caught on. I've no idea what's currently being taught.
 
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