What are the historical reasons what we call it a 'touchline', and the 'The Ball is in touch' etc, any ideas? I don't know the answer, I have a few guesses but i will put it out there! I had a message from a ref from oversees???
Touchline?
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Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
In the original Laws of the Game in 1863, Law 5 said that when the ball crossed this line, "the first player who touches it shall throw it [in] from the point on the boundary line where it left the ground"
So I had always assumed that this was why it was called the "touch" line. That's just a personal theory though, I have no evidence that it is the true reason.
So I had always assumed that this was why it was called the "touch" line. That's just a personal theory though, I have no evidence that it is the true reason.
Law 7... The original ones... I'll have to ask Minty how that was implemented!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-football-1858-rules-Hallam-FC-stadium.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-football-1858-rules-Hallam-FC-stadium.html
Believe it was always a 'kick' in under the original laws...none of your suvvern nancy 'throws'....
Back in the 1840- 1860's there were a large number of different sets of rules and laws, all competing with each other. The Football Association was set up in 1863 precisely because of this, and to try to impose a uniformity on the game. The rules in the article above was from the Sheffield area, which probably did more than any other in forming the football we all know, and helped out the young FA a great deal, eventually merging their laws in the 1870's
Most early versions included a throw in to the team that touched the ball first when crossing the sideline....which as Peter Grove says, is exactly why it is called the touch line. The big dispute was whether the ball needed to be thrown in at right angles to the line. Rugby (which started as just another football variant) still insists on this today.
Most interestingly, many early rules included that when the ball crossed the end lines (goal lines) if the attack touched it first, they brought the ball out for a kick at the goal. The FA dropped this idea very quickly, but the Rugby code kept it, and the whole purpose became to reach the end line and win a "try" at goal. This was so hard to achieve (and the try at goal might be missed for no score) that in the 1890's Rugby started giving separate points for both the try and the goal.
Most early versions included a throw in to the team that touched the ball first when crossing the sideline....which as Peter Grove says, is exactly why it is called the touch line. The big dispute was whether the ball needed to be thrown in at right angles to the line. Rugby (which started as just another football variant) still insists on this today.
Most interestingly, many early rules included that when the ball crossed the end lines (goal lines) if the attack touched it first, they brought the ball out for a kick at the goal. The FA dropped this idea very quickly, but the Rugby code kept it, and the whole purpose became to reach the end line and win a "try" at goal. This was so hard to achieve (and the try at goal might be missed for no score) that in the 1890's Rugby started giving separate points for both the try and the goal.
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
Not according to the Sheffield Rules. As mentioned in that article, their Law 10 stated:
The Cambridge Rules of 1848 and the FA Laws of 1863 also specify that the ball must be thrown in. The only early set of rules I have that do not specifically state this are the Uppingham School Rules of 1862. These do not say the ball must be thrown but I think it was understood. I am not aware of any early rules that allowed for a kick in from touch - but I would be most interested if you have some that do.
I hadn't come across this. All the early sets of rules that I have seen (those mentioned above) specified that the ball must be thrown in straight (i.e. at 90° to the touchline). Again, I'd be fascinated to see any other rule sets you might have, that have a variation on this.
One of the problems with the early Laws is that they were in a constant state of flux. But most histories of the game quote only the original set (Sheffield 1858, FA 1863) and only hint at subsequent changes.
"The Football Association 1863 - 1883 A source Book" gives a year by year detailed break down of FA Law changes up to just before IFAB was formed, and includes occasional updates on Sheffield Laws.
For instance while the FA kept the idea of a 90 degree throw-in right up till 1877, Sheffield by 1870 had altered their rule to read:
"When the ball is in touch a player of the opposite side to that which kicked it out shall kick it in from where it went out: and no player shall be allowed within 6 yards of the ball until kicked."
These kick-ins lasted for seven years.
Sheffield was an extremely forward thinking association, and experimented with all kinds of new ideas, such as corners, free kicks, rouges, no offside. They helped the FA with encouragement and played representative games with them right through the troubled first ten years. By 1877 the two associations merged their varying sets of Laws: it is described in the FA Source Book as : "The Year of the Throw-in debate". After (apparently) very heated argument, Sheffield agreed to adopt the three man FA offside Law and throw ins rather than kicks, and London agreed to allow these throws to be in any direction. FA Law number 5 was altered in1877 to read:
"When the ball is in touch, a player of the opposite side to that which kicked it out, shall throw it from the point on the boundary line where it left the ground in any direction the thrower may choose. The ball must be thrown in at least six yards, and shall be in play when thrown in, but the player throwing it in shall not play it until it has been played by another player."
I realise that to many this kind of detail is picky and boring, but I have spent the last year making a fairly intensive study of the early years of soccer, and find this kind of stuff utterly fascinating. The slowly changing Laws that eventually led to the goalkeeper's present position is a story in itself (perhaps for another post though).
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
rouges? I'm assuming some kind of auto-correct error. What should this word be?
Definitely with you there. I'm also fascinated by the entire history of the laws and the early years are particularly interesting due to the "constant state of flux" that you correctly refer to.
I don't know if you agree but I tend to believe that if someone today were to watch a game played under the original FA Laws of 1863, they'd be more likely to think they were watching a weird form of rugby involving a round ball and less use of the hands, than the forerunner of the modern game of Association Football.
This is perhaps not too surprising though, given that the original idea behind those Laws was apparently to unify the handling and kicking variations of the various codes.
A rouge was a kind of "less than a goal" score. For a single season in 1867, Sheffield experimented with "rouge flags", 8 yards outside each goal post. A shot that went wide on either side scored a rouge. At the end of the game, if the scores in goals were level, the team with most rouges would win. This was not new to Sheffield, when Aussie rules Football began in 1855, they had a similar idea - two extra posts beyond the goal posts and you could score either a goal or a "behind". At the end, if goals were level, behinds were counted. In 1890s, like Rugby, Aussie Rules awarded points instead, a system still in place today.
As you say, the original idea of the FA Laws was to compromise between kicking and handling games. After the six meetings in 1863, and the well known withdrawal of the "rugby" teams, there was no meeting till 1866. Here, the FA seemed to want to distance themselves from the handling game, banning the "mark" (fair catch) and also getting rid of the touch down behind the goal line winning a kick a goal. Instead, if the attackers touched the ball down they won a "touch down" which worked as a tie breaker exactly like a Sheffield rouge. This was dropped a year later, since it lead to too much play down the sidelines and not at the goal.
In 1867 (despite intense lobbying from Sheffield to add rouge posts instead) the whole ball over goal line was replaced with a simple defensive kick out. By 1873 both Sheffield and the FA settled on the goal kick/corner arrangement we have now.
And finally, yes, I think Association Football would have looked exactly like a weird Rugby, since trying to make fair catches near goal, or win a touch down kick was apparently the main focus of the game. Really and truly its hard to say exactly when football started to look more like the present day game, I would go so far as to suggest it was not till the offside law changes in 1925 that it settled fully down.
BTW, I live in Australia, and find that Aussie Rules has a huge number of links to the earlier versions of the game, except in that it allows running with the ball, so long as you bounce it every 15 metres.
As you say, the original idea of the FA Laws was to compromise between kicking and handling games. After the six meetings in 1863, and the well known withdrawal of the "rugby" teams, there was no meeting till 1866. Here, the FA seemed to want to distance themselves from the handling game, banning the "mark" (fair catch) and also getting rid of the touch down behind the goal line winning a kick a goal. Instead, if the attackers touched the ball down they won a "touch down" which worked as a tie breaker exactly like a Sheffield rouge. This was dropped a year later, since it lead to too much play down the sidelines and not at the goal.
In 1867 (despite intense lobbying from Sheffield to add rouge posts instead) the whole ball over goal line was replaced with a simple defensive kick out. By 1873 both Sheffield and the FA settled on the goal kick/corner arrangement we have now.
And finally, yes, I think Association Football would have looked exactly like a weird Rugby, since trying to make fair catches near goal, or win a touch down kick was apparently the main focus of the game. Really and truly its hard to say exactly when football started to look more like the present day game, I would go so far as to suggest it was not till the offside law changes in 1925 that it settled fully down.
BTW, I live in Australia, and find that Aussie Rules has a huge number of links to the earlier versions of the game, except in that it allows running with the ball, so long as you bounce it every 15 metres.
AaronAvery
New Member
Very good stuff to read this, all seems so far away from the game we love today but very much made it what it is. Great thread!