A&H

2020/2021 season registration. Wait?

Justylove said:
You've got considerations that are not related to players running around the pitch.

Enclosed changing spaces and shower facilities for pre and post game.

Cleaning of facilities that host multiple teams - morning and afternoon.

How physios deal with players injuries


Interesting to see that there is a Step 5 and 6 meeting taking place on June 19th, that may or may not provide extra clarity, however I can't see fitness tests and friendlies in England prior to September, heck teams can't even get together and train properly yet.
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I think the answer to the first point is that match officials and players will have to arrive individually, ready and dressed in match attire.
An interesting one is payment of match fee. Will that be electronic, instead. If we follow a similar approach to Santa posted.
No one at the game, no matchday revenue, who pays players and match officials With no gate or beer money coming in? Will CFAs. Step in for match officials and players have to play out of goodness of heart? Okay at step 6 maybe, 5, but step 4 upwards not so much, players travel very long distances etc.
If everybody arrives in gear then your second point is probably covered.
And for physios, it will only be as bad as players hugging each other at corners, maybe less so, they can wear a mask and gloves that can be changed between injuries and can sanitise in between as well.
Fair points and all need to be answered and probably more be for we can get back.
 
The Referee Store
JamesL said:
I think the answer to the first point is that match officials and players will have to arrive individually, ready and dressed in match attire.
An interesting one is payment of match fee. Will that be electronic, instead. If we follow a similar approach to Santa posted.
No one at the game, no matchday revenue, who plays players and match officials? With no gate or beer money coming in.
If everybody arrives in gear then your second point is probably covered.
And for physios, it will only be as bad as players hugging each other at corners, maybe less so, they can wear a mask and gloves that can be changed between injuries and can sanitise in between as well..
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At contrib level that could have a major impact on club finances. Officials are encouraged to travel together to help reduce costs, if you end up with the officials travelling separately and incurring mileage costs, over a couple of months that quite a big potential burden.

Obviously less of an issue where a fixed fee is paid.
 
Justylove said:
At contrib level that could have a major impact on club finances. Officials are encouraged to travel together to help reduce costs, if you end up with the officials travelling separately and incurring mileage costs, over a couple of months that quite a big potential burden.

Obviously less of an issue where a fixed fee is paid.
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Yeh. I get it. I was kind of alluding to it when saying who is gunna pay it...
A fixed match fee would work I suppose even if temporary basis, even still no money coming in. The people that bank roll supply league clubs (we have a couple down here) are they going to want to do it just so people can play? With no product to sell or return on investment?
In any event I think people are going to have to be flexible... All parties, governing bodies, match officials and clubs
 
1/1000 testing positive now. On a personal level, I'd relish taking my chances at that odds. Factoring in the chance of outdoor transmission (without prolonged social contact) and we're getting close to the travel (or assault on the ref!) being the most dangerous aspect
However, with a natural 'R' of 3, that's not how the Govt. will see things. Even at low levels in the community, it wouldn't take much for the things to escalate again
 
Big Cat said:
1/1000 testing positive now. On a personal level, I'd relish taking my chances at that odds. Factoring in the chance of outdoor transmission (without prolonged social contact) and we're getting close to the travel (or assault on the ref!) being the most dangerous aspect
However, with a natural 'R' of 3, that's not how the Govt. will see things. Even at low levels in the community, it wouldn't take much for the things to escalate again
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Yes plus there's the added "what happens if it spikes again" factor.

I just think it's easier to be over cautious and delay restarting football below the pro levels than it would be to restart and then have to pull the plug on it again as the implications of that would be immense.
 
Justylove said:
Yes plus there's the added "what happens if it spikes again" factor.

I just think it's easier to be over cautious and delay restarting football below the pro levels than it would be to restart and then have to pull the plug on it again as the implications of that would be immense.
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I understand your argument, but to counter-argue, how long would you suppress recreational or grass roots sports for, given that we're highly likely to be in the same boat come the turn of the year? My understanding of scientific consensus, is that a vaccine is still way off, not because of efficacy, but because it takes a long time to determine its safety (among other things). They won't want a repeat of the thalidomide crisis
 
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Big Cat said:
1/1000 testing positive now. On a personal level, I'd relish taking my chances at that odds. Factoring in the chance of outdoor transmission (without prolonged social contact) and we're getting close to the travel (or assault on the ref!) being the most dangerous aspect
However, with a natural 'R' of 3, that's not how the Govt. will see things. Even at low levels in the community, it wouldn't take much for the things to escalate again
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Social distancing from the club bar sounds good! I’m really feline it can be done safely now! 😂
 
Big Cat said:
I understand your argument, but to counter-argue, how long would you suppress recreational or grass roots sports for, given that we're highly likely to be in the same boat come the turn of the year? My understanding of scientific consensus, is that a vaccine is still way off, not because of efficacy, but because it takes a long time to determine its safety (among other things). They won't want a repeat of the thalidomide crisis
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I'm not saying they'll wait until a vaccine, but most likely take a cautious view on a restart.

For the semi pro game, where players are contracted and earning money, the revenue streams that clubs can generate from match day are their lifeblood, so there has to be a way that incorporates that into the restart. Also, in terms of players turning up and leaving in their kit, at Supply and Contrib levels some of the journies teams need to make are sizable. As an example, At Step 3 in the Southern league Truro Town Vs Gosport Borough is a 4 hour plus trip each way. If each player has to travel to and from the game in their own vehicle, not having been able to shower post match, I can't see how much appetite there would be from many players to do that.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
With the impending Horlicks of the Track and Trace app until a vaccine is out it’s feet up boys! Your probably in denial if you think you’ll be wearing a new shirt in the middle probably for the whole of 2020 for starters and probably well into 2021 too!
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Very happy to take a wager that the majority of non league football in England will recommence (at some point) in 2020. Just name the amount ;).

In all seriousness, we're already seeing football in other countries take place with size limited crowds (25-40% of ground capacity). For most of non league this would suffice to provide the revenue they desperately need to survive. As @Big Cat says, there is always risk associated with playing / watching / officiating football (as there is with most things) ... so another month of declining mortality / hospitalisation / infections and sentiment will IMO swing rapidly towards restarting some semblance of the historic normal life. Fingers very firmly crossed!!
 
Just reading an article that says according to the latest data the R rate has increased from the last data published.

In the NW it's now risen to 1.01
SW it's 1
Worryingly in London it's jumped from an estimated 0.4 up to 0.94.

If that data is correct and it continues to rise, we could be relatively quickly seeing case increases and a backwards step into lockdown again.
 
Justylove said:
Just reading an article that says according to the latest data the R rate has increased from the last data published.

In the NW it's now risen to 1.01
SW it's 1
Worryingly in London it's jumped from an estimated 0.4 up to 0.94.

If that data is correct and it continues to rise, we could be relatively quickly seeing case increases and a backwards step into lockdown again.
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With less cases the R number will start to bounce around a lot more ... Germany was at 1.2 last week and is now back to around 0.6. Needs to be looked at in combination with overall number infected (currently estimated at 1 in 1,000). But of course, anything is still possible 🙏
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I posted about our own impending UK lockdown and the eventual suspension of the Prem 2/3 weeks before it happened on a Blades Page and was shot down in flames then, but as you know, i'm usually right, it just takes the others time to catch up!!! ;) I wouldn't hold your breath on any local football at all this year, at the end at the very earliest, and possibly long after that too!!!
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Changing everyday now though isn't it? All shops can open from Monday plus zoos (with restrictions in place) - pubs and barbers won't be far behind, then it will be us!;)

Sort of related so hope admin don't take a dim view - just read that as PGMOL referees not tested yet, friendlies will be refereed by coaching staff - good luck with THAT!:p

:eek::rolleyes:
 
JamesL said:
No, I don't need to shield, but I also don't see the risk as zilch.
You'll be surrounded by 20 odd players spitting all over the place, natural when engaging in high intensity sport, potentially running through and past aerosol of another person who perhaps is asymptomatic.
I might feel differently at the time but at this time the south west had the highest r rate, people are dying and people are still becoming infected. So yes, the risk is minimal outdoors, but let's not forget that this is remaining outside of 2m. Not always possible on a football pitch.
I have taken the whole thing quite seriously, and continue too until the point I feel that the information we are being given satisfies my opinion that its safe again. At tge minute the guidance is not conducive to full contact sports between 22+ people.
To add to it I don't necessarily agree with the extent to which the easing of restrictions is happening at the moment. Yes I know we need to get the economy going again (I am from that side of the political spectrum) but that can't and shouldn't be to the detriment of public health.
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As someone said higher up though - we seem to be learning all the time. Saw a quote from WHO that suggested that its NOT passed on by anyone who has no symptoms - BUT as is evident as its 'new', did caution that with a concern about sample size of data available.
 
Bottom line issue is the 'R' number and we talk about London v. N.West v. Germany etc; why is not about the R number for Care Homes v. Hospitals v. Supermarkets v. Changing Rooms v. Football Fields; surely that is the real issue and if those numbers were published, then we'd have a better understanding of the risks involved and the direction to take to minimise them and therefore be able to get back to some form of normality?
 
N416405 said:
Bottom line issue is the 'R' number and we talk about London v. N.West v. Germany etc; why is not about the R number for Care Homes v. Hospitals v. Supermarkets v. Changing Rooms v. Football Fields; surely that is the real issue and if those numbers were published, then we'd have a better understanding of the risks involved and the direction to take to minimise them and therefore be able to get back to some form of normality?
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Think the problems are lack of data and everyone's perception of risk is different. I heard a gov advisor say that from the studies they had seen , she thought it very unlikely that you could catch it outside with sensible distancing in place - that was about 3 weeks ago when Stay Home was changed to stay alert - yet on my local neighbourhood forum you still get people getting excited/worried/paranoid about a cyclist passing too near!

I'm with Top Cat on this one - the risk is never going to be nil, but then as soon as we step out of the door, get in our car and run around a field with 22 potentially angry players the risk goes up compared to sitting here typing this!
 
Lots of weekly data from ONS here:- https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-covid-19-surveillance-reports, currently this lot adds up to give an R = 1, but remove the Care Homes and Hospitals (where R must be a lot higher) then you are left with a much smaller R number.

The other 'pointer' towards the risk being low, is that 'track & trace' only kicks in, if you are "spending more than 15 minutes within 2 metres of someone"; which wouldn't be the case on a football field.

Until we start to address the actual risk v. every day risks, then football won't (can't?) return, unless there's a vaccine (which might be never).

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N416405 said:
The other 'pointer' towards the risk being low, is that 'track & trace' only kicks in, if you are "spending more than 15 minutes within 2 metres of someone"; which wouldn't be the case on a football field.
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If I spend 40 minutes in a car park with a 30 minute limit, I'll get a fine. If I come back after 20 minutes, drive round the block and then park for another 20 minutes, I'm still going to get fined. And due to our poor understanding of CV, transmission of the virus is a far less well understood science than car parking fines!
 
GraemeS said:
If I spend 40 minutes in a car park with a 30 minute limit, I'll get a fine. If I come back after 20 minutes, drive round the block and then park for another 20 minutes, I'm still going to get fined. And due to our poor understanding of CV, transmission of the virus is a far less well understood science than car parking fines!
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Talking to my public health colleague the principal form of transmission is expelled droplets. The reason why social distancing, catch it etc., and hygiene are the key control measures in everyday life....no reason why we cannot return almost to normality.....
 
Mintyref said:
Talking to my public health colleague the principal form of transmission is expelled droplets. The reason why social distancing, catch it etc., and hygiene are the key control measures in everyday life....no reason why we cannot return almost to normality.....
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I'm in Hull in the morning @Mintyref , are there any special local measures I need to add for my risk assessment, my jabs are up to date I'm sure since the last visit!!
 
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