A&H

Second sin-bin - KFTPM

bester

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Player receives two sin bins in a match meaning (System B) he can't return but can be substituted at the end of the second sin bin period.
The second sin bin hasn't expired at the end of the match

1) can he take part in penalty kicks?
2) If not can a substitute replace him?
 
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Player receives two sin bins in a match meaning (System B) he can't return but can be substituted at the end of the second sin bin period.
The second sin bin hasn't expired at the end of the match

1) can he take part in penalty kicks?
2) If not can a substitute replace him?
1) No. He takes no further part in the match.
2) No. Only players on the field of play at the full time whistle may take part in KFTPM.
The other team would need to reduce their numbers.
 
It's a grey area.
Screenshot_20201010-105040.jpg

It's not clear if this refers to second TD as well. Unlikely. If it refers to the first TD only, it means for KFTPM purposes a player can only partially serve TD and therefore for the second TD he can be replaced by a sub prematurely.

There are other shortcomings from TD laws which the competition rules usually cover. In either case the most important thing is the teams start and continue KFTPM in equal numbers.
 
It's a grey area.
View attachment 4610

It's not clear if this refers to second TD as well. Unlikely. If it refers to the first TD only, it means for KFTPM purposes a player can only partially serve TD and therefore for the second TD he can be replaced by a sub prematurely.

There are other shortcomings from TD laws which the competition rules usually cover. In either case the most important thing is the teams start and continue KFTPM in equal numbers.

Yes this is one you could read either way:

If the TD time has not been completed for a first offence the player can return, but because of no explicit mention of a second TD it could be read as either:

1) not mentioned in the laws, so can't be substituted

OR

2) The TD "expires" at the end of the game, but the player can't come back on, so has to be replaced.

The assumption in 2) above is that the offending team has not used all of its allowable substitutions, if there's a second TD and the team has used them all, then the player is not coming back and can't be substituted.
 
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It's a grey area.
View attachment 4610

It's not clear if this refers to second TD as well. Unlikely. If it refers to the first TD only, it means for KFTPM purposes a player can only partially serve TD and therefore for the second TD he can be replaced by a sub prematurely.

There are other shortcomings from TD laws which the competition rules usually cover. In either case the most important thing is the teams start and continue KFTPM in equal numbers.
For me, the laws are already written for what happens after a match has ended and before KFTPM. That is only players on the pitch may take part. The TD ends when the match ends, that is obvious. So no substitutions can be made.
The only exception I think would be a goal keeper, who can be replaced if he cannot continue.
The drafting could be a lot clearer, for sure. But I don't think the laws give any scope to allow a substitution before KFTPM.
 
For me, the laws are already written for what happens after a match has ended and before KFTPM. That is only players on the pitch may take part. The TD ends when the match ends, that is obvious. So no substitutions can be made.
The only exception I think would be a goal keeper, who can be replaced if he cannot continue.
The drafting could be a lot clearer, for sure. But I don't think the laws give any scope to allow a substitution before KFTPM.
Many laws are written without TD in mind. TD is an option for grassroot only and doesn't get much attention for clarifictiions.

Screenshot_20201010-201342.jpg

Does this change anything for you. Use it together with my preveious quote. Not saying your interpretation is incorrect. Just saying other interpretation can be correct also.
 
Many laws are written without TD in mind. TD is an option for grassroot only and doesn't get much attention for clarifictiions.

View attachment 4611

Does this change anything for you. Use it together with my preveious quote. Not saying your interpretation is incorrect. Just saying other interpretation can be correct also.
I've considered that already and for me the player is not temporarily off the field of play. He is not returning. His leaving the field is permanent.
 
Except of course that no substitutions can be made once the match finishes (i.e. at the ends of normal time/extra time)

Very true, but it just goes to show what a complete minefield this is, which could easily be fixed by IFAB adding a single line stating what happens in the event of a second TD occuring and not being concluded when the final whistle goes and the game goes to KFTPM.
 
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