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WSL again

PinnerPaul

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Not quite sure how she messed this up, but we all make mistakes. However, much like the Keith Stroud penalty incident a few years ago, what I don't understand is how/why none of her 3 colleagues have alerted her to the error?

 
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She must have messed up her note taking with the first card. You can see that she clearly thinks it's about to be a second yellow (stopping an advantage, calling her over again once the yellow's been shown, even has her hand in her back pocket) but then checks her notes and ends up not showing the red. Maybe she's written down the wrong number, or marked it against the Everton 15 - something like that.

As you say, baffling that no one helped her out there. At least one of the other officials should have been taking a match record and then telling her something's wrong. Weird to get no complaints from the opponents as well - if I'm showing a second yellow in one of my games, there are usually 11 players who have told me about it before I've had a chance to confirm my notes!
 
Supplementary question for those observers/tutors that have operated at a senior level - In a case like this, does all the blame/'punishment' fall on the referee or are the other 3 officials seen as culpable as well?

I expect she will get a holiday from WSL duties, just wondered if the other 3 also will?

As I said we have all been there, if not 2 yellows, no reds, then other obvious mistakes - equally as silly .
 
Can only think it was a note taking issue as Graeme highlights, or confusion following a 'flash' first yellow?
 
She must have messed up her note taking with the first card. You can see that she clearly thinks it's about to be a second yellow (stopping an advantage, calling her over again once the yellow's been shown, even has her hand in her back pocket) but then checks her notes and ends up not showing the red. Maybe she's written down the wrong number, or marked it against the Everton 15 - something like that.

As you say, baffling that no one helped her out there. At least one of the other officials should have been taking a match record and then telling her something's wrong. Weird to get no complaints from the opponents as well - if I'm showing a second yellow in one of my games, there are usually 11 players who have told me about it before I've had a chance to confirm my notes!

Indeed - on a fan's site, someone says it look like she's changed her mind about the 2nd yellow - but as I pointed out, no referee would get out the card, show it, THEN change your mind!
 
Can only think it was a note taking issue as Graeme highlights, or confusion following a 'flash' first yellow?

I saw the match highlights, the first yellow was a ceremonial one - SPA and/or reckless - foul challenge was from behind, no chance of playing the ball and attacker was approaching the penalty area - nothing wrong/unusual/controversial about the first one.
 
I saw the match highlights, the first yellow was a ceremonial one - SPA and/or reckless - foul challenge was from behind, no chance of playing the ball and attacker was approaching the penalty area - nothing wrong/unusual/controversial about the first one.
All the more baffling then. What are the chances of the ARs and the referee not knowing that a player has recieved 2 yellow cards? Almost impossible id suggest, which leads us on to why they didn't communicate with the referee? Didn't feel the could?
 
Supplementary question for those observers/tutors that have operated at a senior level - In a case like this, does all the blame/'punishment' fall on the referee or are the other 3 officials seen as culpable as well?

I expect she will get a holiday from WSL duties, just wondered if the other 3 also will?

As I said we have all been there, if not 2 yellows, no reds, then other obvious mistakes - equally as silly .
The 4O will be their fair share of the 💩 that will be coming to Lucy Oliver. The Senior AR will depend on whether she was keeping a note, but the Junior AR should be relatively safe.

Anyway Lucy O will be having her own 3 week lockdown :)
 
Supplementary question for those observers/tutors that have operated at a senior level - In a case like this, does all the blame/'punishment' fall on the referee or are the other 3 officials seen as culpable as well?

I expect she will get a holiday from WSL duties, just wondered if the other 3 also will?

As I said we have all been there, if not 2 yellows, no reds, then other obvious mistakes - equally as silly .

Very much depends on the pre-match instructions. If the referee told the junior AR not to record cautions then he or she is pretty much exonerated, but I know some referees tell the junior AR to record cautions and not the senior, reasoning being you don't want two officials on the same touchline taking their eyes off the game to write at the same time, in which case AR1 might be off the hook with AR2 back on it.

The referee and AR1 have no get out clause unfortunately and will in all likelihood be getting a three week break.
 
Where we are AR2 records goals and cards.

Error in law for ref.

For the others, esp. 4O, marked down on communications skills presumably.

Shame. But happens. Also possible that an AR did raise it in comms but ignored by the ref in the fog of war...
 
The 4O will be their fair share of the 💩 that will be coming to Lucy Oliver. The Senior AR will depend on whether she was keeping a note, but the Junior AR should be relatively safe.

Anyway Lucy O will be having her own 3 week lockdown :)
Thanks
 
i wonder if she was stitched up the way mr poll was with his three card trick:wall:i find it unbelievablle
that 3 other referees dydng see her mistake,
 
I think this is a good lesson for all of us to consider several items.

1) Isolate and make 100% sure you have the right number (or name, if you're in England and doing that) for a caution.
2) Make sure that you confirm with your team who has committed misconduct. If you have comms, confirm the number immediately. If not, then confirm at halftime.

This fall, I had a situation where I cautioned a player, and that player thought it was his second caution. He even started walking off the field. I had to bring him back and tell him a different player had the first card early in the game (I even showed him my game card to confirm). No one on the other team protested, so I am 99% sure that I had the right player on the first caution. However, it's a great lesson to slow down and make sure everyone is clear on who is earning the caution.

In this case, it almost has to be some case of the entire crew writing the number down wrong after Oliver issued the card. It's either that, or other crew members couldn't convince her she had the wrong number. This is why I want all of my crew members writing down game information. I worked on two crews with fourth officials yesterday in a state tournament, and we all wrote down goals and cautions to confirm them at half and full time. Even then, I received good feedback from my crew at halftime of my center that I didn't do a great job of isolating players when I cautioned them in the first half. Unfortunately (or fortunately), I didn't have a chance to improve that in the second half since I didn't give a caution.
 
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Could also be that Oliver communicated the number wrongly to her AR's over comms, I've heard it quite often that the CR will just say 'NO4, Yellow card,SPA' and I wouldn't be surprised if the assistents wouldn't bet an eye, in which case they're still not safe from a holiday but better off than the whole crew being wrong
 
Anybody allowing the free kick to be taken quickly?
If you're insistent on giving a caution (and it's more likely that you would be if you know it's a second yellow), I think you can 100% justify slowing things down. The player it got passed to looked unhappy, but I think if she'd seen a red come out, she would have been perfectly happy to give up that one chance in exchange for a player advantage for the rest of the match. Given we all agree the ref clearly expected that to be a second yellow, I've got no issue at all with the decision to stop play - it only looks a bit more borderline because her notes told her not to send the player off!

If it was a first yellow card? Eeeeh, it's debatable - I think the new laws allow us to not give the yellow if you play a QFK and the SPA is the only reason you were planning on a caution? And in this case, I don't think you can call that reckless, so if you play the QFK, you're almost obliged to not come back and show a card later. Which means you're making a split second choice between a promising attack and no caution, or a ceremonial FK and a caution. That's a toss-up for me, and may depend in part on how effective the fouled team's FK's have been so far.

But that does also open up the possibility that you don't want to allow the QFK because you want to get that player in the book. It's hard to tell from a single clip, but she might have been walking a line up until that point - if she commits a foul like that, the ref might have been thinking "yes, I can finally justify that card she's been kind of asking for for the last 10 minutes". In which case, stopping the game and laying down the law with a caution might benefit your match control overall, despite taking away a single promising-ish attack.
 
I’ve never seen the value in ‘holidays’ as a punishment...which is exactly what they are.

All for a reprimand by way of ‘explain yourself’ following a bad error but let’s be honest, the team will be mortified by this whatever the reason for missing the two yellows was. It’s safe to say if anyone’s going to make a similar mistake in future games, it isn’t going to be these four!

What does taking them out the pool achieve? I appreciate they hold a privileged position, which other officials below will be fighting to be in but surely it’d be covered in an end of season assessment.
 
I’ve never seen the value in ‘holidays’ as a punishment...which is exactly what they are.

All for a reprimand by way of ‘explain yourself’ following a bad error but let’s be honest, the team will be mortified by this whatever the reason for missing the two yellows was. It’s safe to say if anyone’s going to make a similar mistake in future games, it isn’t going to be these four!

What does taking them out the pool achieve? I appreciate they hold a privileged position, which other officials below will be fighting to be in but surely it’d be covered in an end of season assessment.
I mean, the most obvious thing is that everyone outside SG1 (the PL refs & assistants) are only paid per match, and even they have a significant chunk of their income come from match fees on top of a basic salary. 3 weeks without a match is 3 weeks without being able to earn from refereeing.
 
I mean, the most obvious thing is that everyone outside SG1 (the PL refs & assistants) are only paid per match, and even they have a significant chunk of their income come from match fees on top of a basic salary. 3 weeks without a match is 3 weeks without being able to earn from refereeing.
It's also 3 weeks of not being able to enjoy what you do. To think of it as a holiday, is wrong IMO. Thinking about how after a couple of postponements I am chomping at the bit to get back.
I suppose she could. Still pick up local games???
 
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