A&H

Sub takes part in penalty shootout

Jed

Jed

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A few weeks ago I was ar2 for a youth cup final (u13) Game went to penalties and upwent the first taker when me and a couple others on the halfway line noticed a sub was taking a penalty. Naturally, I delayed the taking off the penalty and walked over to the ref to inform him of this. Informed the referee but he was happy with him taking one what was of course his decision to make but left me and a few others wondering the problems that could of occurred if they won that shootout luckily for our sake they lost. Didn’t really know what to tell the home team considering the referee had let him take a penalty. Can someone please just confirm the precedure of subs for u13 penalty shootouts. I know it’s sound stupid and obvious but this has made me question my self
 
A&H International
It's not stupid at all. The referee should not have let the sub take a penalty. Law 10 very clearly states that
  • With the exception of a substitute for a goalkeeper who is unable to continue, only players who are on the field of play or are temporarily off the field of play (injury, adjusting equipment etc.) at the end of the match are eligible to take kicks
If that sub wasn't on the field at full time, he shouldn't have been allowed to take the kick. The team saved the ref's a55 by losing.
 
This is why it is very important the match officials know which players are on the pitch at the end of the game. Something that was made a lot harder with repeat substitutes. If you have neutral ARs ask AR1 to try and make sure that no subs enter the pitch at full time / end of extra time as that gives you half a chance.

This is one of those situations where if the losing team makes a complaint the game would have to be replayed and the match officials would be in hot water. @Jed you did exactly the right thing in alerting the referee.
 
RustyRef said:
This is why it is very important the match officials know which players are on the pitch at the end of the game. Something that was made a lot harder with repeat substitutes. If you have neutral ARs ask AR1 to try and make sure that no subs enter the pitch at full time / end of extra time as that gives you half a chance.

This is one of those situations where if the losing team makes a complaint the game would have to be replayed and the match officials would be in hot water. @Jed you did exactly the right thing in alerting the referee.
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On the repeat subs - we have a lot leagues and therefore some cups with repeat subs. This used to cause confusion before penalty shoot outs. But then competition rules were clarified that return subs were allowed to be made after the final whistle. This made it much easier to handle as teams could then just choose their 11.

Even though law 10 says “only players who are on the field of play or are temporarily off the field of play (injury, adjusting equipment etc.) at the end of the match are eligible to take kicks” , the laws can’t cover everything, and the return subs “law” perhaps hasn’t really been covered (yet) in the LotG the way it has been covered (for decades) in local competitions in sone countries/leagues.
 
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santa sangria said:
On the repeat subs - we have a lot leagues and therefore some cups with repeat subs. This used to cause confusion before penalty shoot outs. But then competition rules were clarified that return subs were allowed to be made after the final whistle. This made it much easier to handle as teams could then just choose their 11.

Even though law 10 says “only players who are on the field of play or are temporarily off the field of play (injury, adjusting equipment etc.) at the end of the match are eligible to take kicks” , the laws can’t cover everything, and the return subs “law” perhaps hasn’t really been covered (yet) in the LotG the way it has been covered (for decades) in local competitions in sone countries/leagues.
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So is that for all youth league across the country or just your CFA youth cups?
 
RustyRef said:
This is one of those situations where if the losing team makes a complaint the game would have to be replayed and the match officials would be in hot water.
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Granted they can determine who the on field players were, .most leagues only replay the shootout.
 
one said:
Granted they can determine who the on field players were, .most leagues only replay the shootout.
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Not in England, I don't think there have been any cases of just replaying the penalties, the whole game gets replayed.
 
RustyRef said:
Not in England, I don't think there have been any cases of just replaying the penalties, the whole game gets replayed.
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I can think of one that a friend gave me. A few years ago they had to replay their semi final penalties immediately before the final. Granted it was an U14s match so isn't as serious as adults football.
 
All of the youth games I do allow reentry. But I’ve never had a problem with the subs issue. Part of it is pregame—the ARs need to know it is their responsibility to know who the subs are at full time before PKs. It helps that most of the games I do have controlled subs and the ARs track them, but even without that, the ARs need to own that part of the management. None of the leagues or tournaments I’ve done have modified Law 10 to let players off the field take kicks. (I don’t agree with Santa that it is a permissible change because the Laws don’t cover everything—Law 10 is very clear and nothing about return subs makes a difference for the concept. But it’s hardly the most egregious of technically improper modifications that are routinely made in lower level and youth competitions.)
 
Gabriel said:
I can think of one that a friend gave me. A few years ago they had to replay their semi final penalties immediately before the final. Granted it was an U14s match so isn't as serious as adults football.
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Boy if you think U14 isn’t as serious as adult, you aren’t talking to enough parents! Those U14 games are essential to getting college scholarships and pro contracts!
 
socal lurker said:
Boy if you think U14 isn’t as serious as adult, you aren’t talking to enough parents! Those U14 games are essential to getting college scholarships and pro contracts!
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I know parents take it too seriously (I know coaches do to sometimes!) but in my area with at least 10+ professional teams within 1.5 hours either way, if they haven't been picked up at U14 they won't be.
 
Gabriel said:
I know parents take it too seriously (I know coaches do to sometimes!) but in my area with at least 10+ professional teams within 1.5 hours either way, if they haven't been picked up at U14 they won't be.
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The dynamic may also be very different in the US. Parents over here (in all sports) are delusional about college scholarships. (And the professional academies are in their infancy compared to places like England.) Many of those who think their kid is going to get a scholarship don’t even realize the limits on scholarships in soccer or even that many of them are 1/2 scholarships. It blouses my mind how many parents with kids playing at modest levels of competition think their kid has a chance at a scholarship. And the club sports programs feed that delusion because they make lots of money off parents shelling out for teams and tournaments—some of them thinking it is an “investment” without paying attention to the level of talent and the tier their kid is playing in.
 
Jed said:
So is that for all youth league across the country or just your CFA youth cups?
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As said above, I am in another country (no CARs yay, grassroots solos, return subs with ball in play and my 2nd tier u20 middle cancelled today :(. Still, last night’s 5th tier mens was quality, two cracking ARs new to me, great on comms, one young lady second year in our dev group, great future:) )
 
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I remember when this happened in a regional league grand final match in Australia just over 15 years ago.
Not just a substituted player, but a player sent off. That team went on to win the shootout (and the championship along with it). The losing team successfully appealed to have the complete match replayed. But then the winning team was able to appeal the appeal successfully and were confirmed as premiers (although that appeal being successful was more about the league not following the correct appeal process in the first appeal - very messy). Losing team then left the league to (eventually) a higher league
 
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