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For all its faults and issues, I think VAR should stay. I like the forensic level analysis of incidents and overall it improves reffing quality. I believe that the process will continue to improve over time. Don't forget that the side on the wrong end of a VAR decision will nearly always...

@RustyRef interesting, but as many other stadiums don't have these features and they don't waterlog, these slopes all round the pitch aren't needed to achieve adequate drainage. I suspect that advancements in technology have mitigated this. I've never noticed that slope either and no tendency...

I don't get why the Old Trafford pitch is made that way as there's no need for it. I've been there and can tell you that the drop-off is high and steep, the camera doesn't lie. With Ratcliffe now at the helm and his desire to overhaul the stadium as part of his overall plans for the club, maybe...

Hangonaminute! So, you're saying that a reffing expert, ie the ref and the VAR team are being judged by non-reffing experts and potentially partisan people, the ex players and managers? Something isn't right here. An appeal should only be judged by top refs, end of story.

With such obvious reffing errors, one can see why people sometimes think a decision was fixed, even if it wasn't. I haven't seen it, so am not expressing an opinion on it, just going by your account.

But guys, why is this incident worth a red card and not just a yellow?

The ball had only just started its trajectory when the keeper blocked it, plus the angle viewed at, so it doesn't look certain to me. Remember, the ref saw it from a very different angle than the camera and that can make a real difference to perception. There's no VAR in this game either, I believe.

Right, I can see that the keeper handballed it, but why a red card and not just a yellow? Is it because it looked like that header would have gone in, maybe?

Forest have demanded that referee audio of the incidents be released to the public domain. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/clw0g501q0xo

Hypothetically assuming that the accusations are right, is it still inappropriate to make them in public? I have a feeling it might be and perhaps should only be made through the official channel. btw, I have no opinion on them one way or the other as I didn't see the incidents, just curious.

@Viridis1886 I can't wait for them to bring the sin bin to the Premier League and Champions League. It's so humiliating for the naughty player to be made to sit in the naughty spot for a bit, lol. Do the players get all grumbly when they're forced to sit it out? Also, is it the ref who times...

This fascinating video shows lots of ghost goals over the decades due to incorrect reffing decisions. Of course, these errors happened due to the difficulty of seeing these fast action edge cases in real time with the naked eye and no available replays. It's interesting to see as how technology...

The thread starter doesn't state any particular level of reffing, so it was reasonable to bring in the situation where VAR and the monitor are available as one possible scenario. I agree that constantly asking questions isn't acceptable as it's just a form of trolling and undermining the ref...

@Hazzy this sounds awful. From what I understand, reffing is more of a vocation, a passion, rather than about the money, so if things don't improve then it might be best to give up on it. I certainly wouldn't want to take relentless abuse for anything, whether paid or not. Hope the situation...

Ah, experience! 😂

Ok, I was referring to where they do have a monitor such as in PL or CL games. If there's no other way to double check, then of course, you can't just go by what the player's claiming and I wasn't suggesting that. Ok, so where there's VAR, which is the scenario I was thinking of, then it's...

Sorry, I don't see where it's confusing. Not sure how to clarify it further.

ok cool. Now, let's consider the scenario where our hypothetical polite player happens to be right. Shouldn't the ref then change his mind, or at least review the incident on the monitor?

If a player comes up to the ref, politely disagrees and attempts to explain why the decision was wrong and hence change his mind, is that still an offense?

Not giving handball for a reflexive, defensive movement to prevent injury sounds sensible to me. @bester thanks for that quote, very helpful. 🙂 I've seen in the PL with VAR replays where it looks like a grey area regarding defensive / deliberate / arm in the wrong place etc where it can take...