RefSix

A constant reminder throughout the match.

#1
Yesterday I gave a penalty for a trip in the box after 20mins. 'Soft' but it was a clear foul. Only the big characters in the team complained - as expected.

Throughout the rest of the match after decisions agaisnt that team one particular player would comapre it to that tackle. Stuff like "ahh that was softer than the penalty ref" or "there was more contact there than the pen ref" - just comments to make me doubt decisions I assume.

I don't mind it for a few tackles after, which is kind of expected, but up until the final whistle!?

Apart from telling him to give a rest, is that much else refs can do?
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#3
Yesterday I gave a penalty for a trip in the box after 20mins. 'Soft' but it was a clear foul. Only the big characters in the team complained - as expected.

Throughout the rest of the match after decisions agaisnt that team one particular player would comapre it to that tackle. Stuff like "ahh that was softer than the penalty ref" or "there was more contact there than the pen ref" - just comments to make me doubt decisions I assume.

I don't mind it for a few tackles after, which is kind of expected, but up until the final whistle!?

Apart from telling him to give a rest, is that much else refs can do?
Ask him to stop. Tell him to stop or you will caution (with the captain present too if you like), caution.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#4
One line I use, if I can imagine your situation, is "

"look mate, I have moved on since that, can I suggest that you do too please"

That for me acknowleges his concerns (which afterall is all he wants) but also does not incriminate you in any way.

if it continues, then, a clear public final warning of

"right, I have asked nicely, now am telling you, give it a rest, end of"

You now have free range to caution for dissent. (if indeed it was needed justifying)
 
#5
One warning, call the captain over and make it clear that the passage of play has passed, you don't mind a little appeal here and there but it's overstepping the boundary and bordering on dissent. State that if the player carries on it will be a caution for dissent, and you don't want it to come to that but you're being left with no options.

If he carries on, well he can't say you didn't warn him, and he only has himself to blame. By carrying on, he's chosen his own fate and made a bed for himself, and made your life easier because now he's on a caution and will either shut up and get on with the game or carry on and be sent off, either way the problem is resolved.

Reminds me of a game I had last season, a somewhat "veteran" player was moaning about a challenge and I said to him "you're still going on about it!? It was fifteen minutes ago mate!" To which he replied: "sorry ref, I just live in the past. Fifteen years ago I was a good player!"

Ultimately it depends on your tolerance levels for dissent, but if its annoying you and getting on your nerves, don't be afraid to pull him up on it.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#8
Thanks guys!

This was the first time I've had a player go on and on about something. At least I know what to do next time. :)
Lots of animals in the wild will bump or probe their prey to assess for weakness. Although players think they're trying to win a football match, their true priority is to get the referee on the menu. Left unchecked, devious low level harassment can quickly end in a scene out of Jaws 🦈 (top film btw!!)
 
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jofusref

RefChat Addict
#9
step 1 quiet word in passing ok i have heard enough shut up
step2 public bollocking isolate your self and the player from everybody else
then make it clear one more word the yellow card is coming out to say hello.
step 3 caution
step 4 if there is one 2nd yellow red goodbye
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#10
step 1 quiet word in passing ok i have heard enough shut up
step2 public bollocking isolate your self and the player from everybody else
then make it clear one more word the yellow card is coming out to say hello.
step 3 caution
step 4 if there is one 2nd yellow red goodbye


My opinion is that a ref who double yellows for dissent, has not conveyed the appropriate message with the first card.
Granted there is always an exception to it, and somewhere some player just wont take a telling but, if you send out the right message prior to, and then, during, the yc procedure, then (leaving aside the tiny per cent who are just fools) , that player should be seeing out the game
Its very rare to see a double yellow for dissent....
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#11
I would say though, if a player puts himself in a position for a second dissent caution, then dish it out. I wager some of them think they'll be let off as other referees may try and be lenient about it. If they're foolish enough to do it twice, then punish it twice, don't help them out of it.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#12
My opinion is that a ref who double yellows for dissent, has not conveyed the appropriate message with the first card.
Granted there is always an exception to it, and somewhere some player just wont take a telling
I take the opposite view. If a player is double yellowed for dissent then he has little to no sense of respect for authority or common sense in learning from a mistake and is appropriately punished for it. Granted there is always some exceptions here and there that the referee's delivery of the first card has crossed the appropriate acceptable level of authority.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#13
I take the opposite view. If a player is double yellowed for dissent then he has little to no sense of respect for authority or common sense in learning from a mistake and is appropriately punished for it. Granted there is always some exceptions here and there that the referee's delivery of the first card has crossed the appropriate acceptable level of authority.
Rare to see a double dissent yellow. Is that because as referees we are happy to give out a token yellow for dissent but we dont want to appear weak by issuing the 2nd one? (of course plenty would say its strong to do so)
There is a school of thought saying if you sent someone off for dissent (2 yellows), that you were not capable of managing the situation.

Or, my own thoughts, we rightly or wrongly rank offences, and, we don't want to create a rod for our own back by sending someone off for shouting at us, whilst missing 3/4 yellow card tackles, or worse?

we show our one yellow and that's us, dealt with the dissent.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#14
Rare to see a double dissent yellow. Is that because as referees we are happy to give out a token yellow for dissent but we dont want to appear weak by issuing the 2nd one? (of course plenty would say its strong to do so)
There is a school of thought saying if you sent someone off for dissent (2 yellows), that you were not capable of managing the situation.

Or, my own thoughts, we rightly or wrongly rank offences, and, we don't want to create a rod for our own back by sending someone off for shouting at us, whilst missing 3/4 yellow card tackles, or worse?

we show our one yellow and that's us, dealt with the dissent.
I only remember two occasion for double dissent yellows in my games (about 15 years). I have also had a couple of dissent yellow followed by OFFINABUS. I agree that good player management skills can defuse some situations but unfortunately this is wrongly confused with if you did not defuse a situation then you are not good in managing players. One does not necessarily follow the other. (All elephants are mammals but not all mammals are elephants if you get what I mean :) )
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#15
step 1 quiet word in passing ok i have heard enough shut up
step2 public bollocking isolate your self and the player from everybody else
then make it clear one more word the yellow card is coming out to say hello.
step 3 caution
step 4 if there is one 2nd yellow red goodbye
Not for me.

The stepped approach works for foul play and some other stuff but dissent is dissent.

By all means, a (public) word with the player on the first occasion (provided it's only borderline dissent) can yield results but not often in my experience. More often than not, I'll engage the player verbally during the first instance of dissent with a firm warning and during that same exchange, he'll continue arguing his point so the card comes out anyway. Dissent is the only thing that gets my hackles rising as a referee because it's effectively "personal". I always nip it in the bud first chance I get.

I've never had a "double dissent" yellow in any of my games, but if it ever does happen, a pound to a penny it's when I'm already cautioning a player for it and he's refusing to STFU whilst I'm doing it. ;)
 
#16
I only remember two occasion for double dissent yellows in my games (about 15 years). I have also had a couple of dissent yellow followed by OFFINABUS. I agree that good player management skills can defuse some situations but unfortunately this is wrongly confused with if you did not defuse a situation then you are not good in managing players. One does not necessarily follow the other. (All elephants are mammals but not all mammals are elephants if you get what I mean :) )
100% agree with this. In 8 years of reffing I've had two double yellows for dissent. The first occasion, I had cautioned for clear verbal dissent in first half and then in second half the player slammed the ball into the ground in disgust at a decision ... nowhere to go on that one. The second occasion was exactly as described by @Kes above in a Sunday game. Despite my best efforts, player (captain, obviously!) just persisted and wouldn't STFU. As it happened his team had started with only 10 players, lost one to injury after 10 minutes and then he was sent off after 20. Conceded the game at half time and folded the following week!

No one wants a double dissent yellow. But based on the fact that I've probably given out a couple of hundred dissent cautions in my time, if 1% of those players don't get the message I'm imparting with the first card then I'm more in the 'blame them' camp than the 'blame me' :)
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#19
I've done the DD once;
in a game in which I made mistakes I've not repeated since. Go figure...

When I first joined this forum, I posted words that a supervisor once said to me, now, then, same as now, its not gospel, but, he said, you dont get dissent when you get your decisions right.

I do believe you can read something into that.
 
#20
When I first joined this forum, I posted words that a supervisor once said to me, now, then, same as now, its not gospel, but, he said, you dont get dissent when you get your decisions right.

I do believe you can read something into that.
Far from gospel, I'd go so far as to say this is utter nonsense to such a degree that it is extremely counter productive to disseminate it further.

You certainly get MORE dissent if you get decisions clearly wrong. However I can think of countless examples where both I and other officials (when I've been an AR) have been given dissent SOLELY on the back of either players' ignorance of the laws or simply the red/blue tinted glasses they inevitably wear when assessing decisions.
 
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