RefSix

a few things from today

Kent Ref

Well-Known Member
#1
I did a friendly today and i had a few queries;

At the kick-off the winning team chose ends. Can the losing team refuse to kick-off?

At a goal kick the keeper was playing it short to his defender in the area. At what point can the attacker enter the area and play the ball - once the keeper kicks the ball or once the second player touches it?

Later on a stray pass hit my back so i stopped the game and gave a dropped ball. Correct?

Lastly, an attacker made contact with the ball ( handball - total accident) on the half way line and the ball went to his team mate who scored - play on or a free kick under the new laws? I gave a goal as i thought attackers accidentally handling the ball was an offence if it was in the last 1/3 or penalty area only.

Bizarrely, the home team said they had 2 weeks off in May had have played friendlies every week since the end of May!

Thanks in advance.
 
#2
I did a friendly today and i had a few queries;

At the kick-off the winning team chose ends. Can the losing team refuse to kick-off?

At a goal kick the keeper was playing it short to his defender in the area. At what point can the attacker enter the area and play the ball - once the keeper kicks the ball or once the second player touches it?

Later on a stray pass hit my back so i stopped the game and gave a dropped ball. Correct?

Lastly, an attacker made contact with the ball ( handball - total accident) on the half way line and the ball went to his team mate who scored - play on or a free kick under the new laws? I gave a goal as i thought attackers accidentally handling the ball was an offence if it was in the last 1/3 or penalty area only.

Bizarrely, the home team said they had 2 weeks off in May had have played friendlies every week since the end of May!

Thanks in advance.
1. No.
2. When the ball is in play--which is now when it is kicked
3. Depends. Play stops when it touches the referee only if it causes a change of possession or a scoring opportunity.
4. Probably right. Non-deliberate handling is an offense if the ball goes into the goal (not what happened) or if the possession gained creates a scoring opportunity--not clear from what you described.
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#3
1. No, if “toss winning” teams chose ends, other team kicks off 1st half.

2. The ball is in play as soon as is kicked and moves, so attacker can enter at that point.

3. Depends. Did possession change, a goal scored or a promising attack start? If yes to any of them, drop ball, if not, play on.

4. Again depends, but sounds like it was the handball - although accidental - which led to a goal scoring opportunity, therefore free kick to the opposition.

All quite easy sat at my kitchen table, with time to think, a different kettle of fish in the heat of the moment on the pitch!
 

Kent Ref

Well-Known Member
#4
So, in summary:

1. Loser has to kick-off.

2. Attacker cannot enter area until keeper makes contact.

3. So if the ball hits me i only give a drop ball if possession changes or starts a promising attack.

4. Accidental handball by an attacker that leads to a GSO is a drop ball - even on the half way line - this will be difficult to sell sometimes.

Thank you both.
 
Last edited:

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#5
So, in summary:

1. Loser has to kick-off.

2. Attacker cannot enter area until keeper makes contact.

3. So if the ball hits me i only give a drop ball if possession changes or starts a promising attack.

4. Handball by an attacker that leads to a GSO is a drop ball - even on the half way line - this will be difficult to sell sometimes.

Thank you both.
1. Not necessarily. Depends on what the winner chooses. Winner chooses, loser takes what's left.
2. Treat like a free kick. Except 10 yards is whole of area. E. G. If player inside and keeper takes anyway no need to penalise.
3. Yes
4. No. It is a handling offence and direct free kick to opposition.
 
#6
Be careful with 4. The language is:

gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity

It’s not that they eventually score a goal. It’s the player gains possession/control and creates a GSO. To a call that should be quickly apparent following the inadvertent handling.

(Not meant as harsh, but based on your questions you might benefit from sitting down with the changes section of the new Laws.)
 

Kent Ref

Well-Known Member
#7
Be careful with 4. The language is:

gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
• scores in the opponents’ goal
• creates a goal-scoring opportunity

It’s not that they eventually score a goal. It’s the player gains possession/control and creates a GSO. To a call that should be quickly apparent following the inadvertent handling.

(Not meant as harsh, but based on your questions you might benefit from sitting down with the changes section of the new Laws.)
But in my scenario, if an attacker handles accidentally on the half way line and the ball goes to an attacker who goes on to score (with no other player touching the ball) - this is a free kick?

I find this law quite frankly ridiculous when the "handling offence" occurs on the half way line. In the penalty area i could understand.
 
#8
Not a question of if he scores. The question in that scenario is did the inadvertent handling allow the player who handled to create a scoring opportunity. If ITOTTR it did, stop immediately, don’t wait for a goal.

(This is not well worded. As written, it is only a handling offense if it is the player who inadvertently touched the ball that gains possession/control and creates the opportunity. I don’t think that is really what they meant, but that’s what the words say. I imagine there will be clarification/amendment to this.)
 

one

RefChat Addict
#9
The misunderstanding is the difference between 'creating' a goal scoring opportunity and 'leading' to a goal scoring opportunity. OP sounds to be leading to a GSO, if so, no handball for me.

In other words, loosely speaking, the next touch after the handball must be a goal scoring opportunity for it to be an offence under the new law. If he takes 4 more touches, goes around 2 defenders before he is in the penalty area and then shoots, that is not an handball. This is my understanding anyway.
 
#10
I think the main debatable one here, as shown by the subsequent discussion, is the accidental handling on half way. The law says accidental handling is only an offence if the ball goes directly into the opponent's goal or creates a goal scoring opportunity after the player gains possession/control of the ball.

Now, unless you're playing the advantage (which wouldn't apply here) you have to give an offence pretty much as and when it occurs. You can't wait a couple of minutes while play develops to see whether a goal is eventually scored, before going back to penalise what you saw earlier. So unless it's apparent immediately (or in very, very short order) that there is a goal scoring opportunity, I think it's going to be difficult to give an offence of accidental handling that occurs on the half way line.
 
#11
Can the losing team refuse to kick-off?
If you mean are they given the choice then no, they're not. Once one team wins the toss and chooses ends, the other team kicks off - that's it.

Theoretically I suppose, they could refuse - just like at any time they choose, a team could refuse to play. If a team refuses to play then you could threaten to abandon the game. It's like asking if a team can refuse to kick off after their opponents score. They could - like the Cameroon team (almost) did in the WWC game against England but it's a rare occurrence and I doubt it's ever going to happen at the kick off.
 
Last edited:

Kent Ref

Well-Known Member
#12
Not a question of if he scores. The question in that scenario is did the inadvertent handling allow the player who handled to create a scoring opportunity. If ITOTTR it did, stop immediately, don’t wait for a goal.

(This is not well worded. As written, it is only a handling offense if it is the player who inadvertently touched the ball that gains possession/control and creates the opportunity. I don’t think that is really what they meant, but that’s what the words say. I imagine there will be clarification/amendment to this.)
I would like to see a further clarification of this issued.
 

Kent Ref

Well-Known Member
#14
The confusion for me is if the winning team chooses ends they have made a choice. Can the second team also have a choice i.e we don't want to kick off the first half?
.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#15
The confusion for me is if the winning team chooses ends they have made a choice. Can the second team also have a choice i.e we don't want to kick off the first half?
.
No. The winner decides which end they wish to attack or kick off.
If the winner chooses kick off the loser chooses end to attack
If the winner chooses which end to attack the loser kicks off..
It is no more complicated than that.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#16
The confusion for me is if the winning team chooses ends they have made a choice. Can the second team also have a choice i.e we don't want to kick off the first half?
.
You are looking at this far too deeply, it always used to be like this and never caused any problems. The scenarios are simple ...

- Team A win toss and chose ends, Team B kick off
- Team A win toss and choose to kick off, Team B then choose ends
- Team B win toss and chose ends, Team A kick off
- Team B win toss and choose to kick off, Team A then choose ends

It isn't complicated in any way.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#17
You are looking at this far too deeply, it always used to be like this and never caused any problems. The scenarios are simple ...

- Team A win toss and chose ends, Team B kick off
- Team A win toss and choose to kick off, Team B then choose ends
- Team B win toss and chose ends, Team A kick off
- Team B win toss and choose to kick off, Team A then choose ends
There are indeed eight combinations, but only two possible outcomes
 

one

RefChat Addict
#18
If the wining team chooses to kick off, the losing team choose the end to attack, can the referee chose which half to stand on for kick off?
 
#20
The confusion for me is if the winning team chooses ends they have made a choice. Can the second team also have a choice i.e we don't want to kick off the first half?
As I said, in law it's just like the kick off after a goal. After a team concedes a goal, can they choose not to kick off? The answer is the same - i.e. they could theoretically do that but they're not being offered that choice by the law.

If you take the actual words of the law that apply to the scenario under discussion, it's entirely straightforward. Eliminating the parts that aren't applicable here, it says:
[If] the team that wins the toss of a coin decides which goal to attack in the first half [...] their opponents take the kick-off
 
Last edited:
Top