Advantage and offside

[McTavish]

I was watching a match today where a player about to pass to a team mate was tripped but regained his balance, the referee signalled advantage and the player played the pass. In the time that the player was regaining his balance, the player for whom the pass was intended had run marginally offside so as soon as he touched the ball the AR signalled for offside.

The referee brought the play back as he felt that advantage had not accrued. Do you think that this was correct or was the fact that he had been able to play the pass sufficient advantage and the ref should have awarded the offside to the defence?

Would it make any difference if the player to whom the pass was played had been in an offside position all along and therefore the trip had no affect on the player being in an offside position?

 

[Mintyref]

Correct decision for me the way it is described in both circumstances, there's usually more then one pass or run with the ball available.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Because that attacker was onside at the time of the foul then became offside, the argument could be made that the team actually was put into a disadvantageous position due to the foul, so a free kick is correct.

If that player was in an offside position all along then this would sound like a squandered advantage (assuming that advantage was appropriately called to begin with)

 

[AlexF]

If a player is fouled, and as fouled, makes a pass, but that pass does not go to a teammate that can play the ball (whether because it's intercepted, goes out of play, teammate is committing an offside offence, etc), then advantage has not accrued, so the advantage signal (by the new directives from on high, and yes, I know that lower level England still does the immediate signal, for a fairly logical reason) should not be made, and the free kick should be given for that original offence

 

[GraemeS]

Yep, I'm with the majority here. In a situation like this, for me the advantage hasn't come off until a pass has been made that has been successfully controlled and in a better position than they would be for the foul. If the alternative is an offside offence going the other way, you should be pulling it back for a foul.

 

[RustyRef]

Agree with all that has been said, come back for the free kick.

 

[Tino Best]

good decision

 

[Grasshopper]

There will always be those who criticise bringing play back, especially at the level we officiate. However I thought it was a great decision. Well done mate!

 

[ref craig]

Yeah good decision by the referee

 

[Jim Garrett]

I often wait for a good 4 or 5 seconds before shouting advantage so I wouldn't have to bring it back. I would have delayed shouting advantage until after the pass had been made.
However in this situation. Was correct to bring the ball back as there was no advantage.

 

[lincs22]

I often wait for a good 4 or 5 seconds before shouting advantage so I wouldn't have to bring it back. I would have delayed shouting advantage until after the pass had been made.
However in this situation. Was correct to bring the ball back as there was no advantage.

At the lower levels of English Football, the advantage call should be made in a similar timescale to as you would do for blowing the whistle mot after you have decided that it has accrued. Applying the advantage means that the offended team has a better (enhanced) attacking potential than if the free-kick was awarded. Therefore, in this instance awarding the original free-kick is the correct decision.

Just because a team retains procession or makes a pass does not mean that advantage has accrued, so always be ready to bring the game back to the original free-kick.

The early signalling of advantage allows the players to see that you have seen the offence (just stopping any afters!) and that they will get the free-kick if the advantage does not accrue. At County level football, you should only have 2-3 good chances for advantage and less with lower levels, as the players are not good enough to benefit from the advantage.

 

[RustyRef]

I often wait for a good 4 or 5 seconds before shouting advantage so I wouldn't have to bring it back. I would have delayed shouting advantage until after the pass had been made.
However in this situation. Was correct to bring the ball back as there was no advantage.

As lincs has said, don't do that in England between levels 7 and 4 if you are going for promotion as observers won't like it. At those levels you are expected to signal advantage immediately, not after it has accrued. Whereas at level 3 and above you are expected to wait and see if the advantage comes off before signalling. Caused me all sorts of problems when I first went from 4 to 3 ..!

 

[Brian Hamilton]

As lincs has said, don't do that in England between levels 7 and 4 if you are going for promotion as observers won't like it. At those levels you are expected to signal advantage immediately, not after it has accrued. Whereas at level 3 and above you are expected to wait and see if the advantage comes off before signalling. Caused me all sorts of problems when I first went from 4 to 3 ..!

Actually saw a 1st year L4 delay on Saturday and it looked good. He made it obvious he was waiting by the position of his arms (elbows tucked back, arms ready to sweep up and forward) and the players certainly seemed to like it. On 2 consecutive Saturdays I've seen L4s play advantage, play it properly and clean up the mess afterwards (caution, public rebuke, etc. for offender). More often I see referees mess up or forget to clean up afterwards.

 

[RefJef]

Sorry, just after a little clarity here as I have heard conflicting thoughts (although now others are saying there is a different procedure for L3s and above it may explain why I'm confused.)

So as a Level 7, I see an infringement, I call "advantage" and signal straight away, and then, if nothing comes of it, I blow up and come back for the free kick?

Could someone confirm.

Thanks

 

[RustyRef]

Actually saw a 1st year L4 delay on Saturday and it looked good. He made it obvious he was waiting by the position of his arms (elbows tucked back, arms ready to sweep up and forward) and the players certainly seemed to like it. On 2 consecutive Saturdays I've seen L4s play advantage, play it properly and clean up the mess afterwards (caution, public rebuke, etc. for offender). More often I see referees mess up or forget to clean up afterwards.

Yes Brian, but you are sensible and aren't looking for an excuse to mark the candidates down. There are a lot of L4 observers that would take the referee to task for taking that approach, I've seen a couple of reports this season where that has happened. I'm the same if I observe a L7, 6 or 5 candidate and they wait and see on advantage, I won't mark them down for it, but will just point out that they may be marked down by other observers.

 

[RustyRef]

Sorry, just after a little clarity here as I have heard conflicting thoughts (although now others are saying there is a different procedure for L3s and above it may explain why I'm confused.)

So as a Level 7, I see an infringement, I call "advantage" and signal straight away, and then, if nothing comes of it, I blow up and come back for the free kick?

Could someone confirm.

Thanks

I think that you are doing is the right thing at your level. Observers want to see an immediate signal and then pull it back if necessary.

Whereas at higher levels, and I think this starts at L3, they don't want to see advantages pulled back and would rather you wait and see before signalling. How many times have you seen a FL or PL referee signal advantage and then pull play back? It is very rare.

 

[Jim Garrett]

I would have to make the point that I believe that I would lose credibility for 'Changing my mind' because I called an advantage then brought it back. I've seen people mention this to other referees before when they have called advantage and the brought it back. The classic 'But you shouted advantage ref'

 

[GraemeS]

I would have to make the point that I believe that I would lose credibility for 'Changing my mind' because I called an advantage then brought it back. I've seen people mention this to other referees before when they have called advantage and the brought it back. The classic 'But you shouted advantage ref'

I've done this loads of times - the correct answer is "the advantage didn't come off, so I'm bringing it back". Make a big point of bringing the ball back to the point of the foul and if necessary, don't forget to bollock/card the original offender.

 

[zarathustra]

As @GraemeS said if you make it obvious there’s no advantage when pulling it back most players will accept that.

I normally give a good blow of the whistle and then shout ‘There’s no advantage so we’ll bring it back for the free kick’ nice and loudly so everyone knows what is going on.

Of course, this is when it is still within the time limit of when you can pull it back, if you leave it 10 seconds then you’d have missed the chance.

 

[lincs22]

I would have to make the point that I believe that I would lose credibility for 'Changing my mind' because I called an advantage then brought it back. I've seen people mention this to other referees before when they have called advantage and the brought it back. The classic 'But you shouted advantage ref'

@Jim Garrett - you would actually gain credibility to pull play back. The offended team would think you gave them a chance, which did not work, so they get the original free-kick. The offending team would hear the call and work to stop the advantage accruing, known that there would be a free-kick. Al-round, both team feel that you gave the advantage the chance and were an intelligent referee. The best referees at L4 & L5 manage this brilliantly and are more respect by the players / team officials. Nobody now thinks that the offended team "has two chances". They still only have the one chance -either the advantage (if it comes off) or the original free-kick!