A&H

Advantage in Penalty Area

Lokolo

New Member
Level 8 Referee
Today I so happy with my officiating. It was a tough game with a red card after 13 minutes (violent conduct). The away team said I did a great job, it was a superb game of football after the 13 minutes, and it actually a joy to officiate.

However one thing that has gone through my mind is an incident where there was a foul towards the inside edge of the area. However, before I had a chance to blow my whistle, the attacking team continued for not even 3-4s, unchallenged, around 8-10 yards from goal, and then he smashed it over the bar (keeper still on their line, U14s). I had the whistle in my mouth but the thought was, let him shoot.

Even if I had blown my whistle, the player still would have had time to shoot, or shot as I blew my whistle.

To me, I felt the advantage was enough not to warrant bringing it back. Having had the chance, if they missed and I then brought it back for a penalty, then it would be unfair, just as if they had scored, and I brought it back, again it would have been unfair.

If the player had been challenged, or keeper was actually not standing like a statue, I would have blown.

Thoughts?
 
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Brave but perhaps risky refereeing. I personally would support your decision to play the advantage there, and obviously if it goes 'right' and they score you get to pull in the plaudits.

But, I think the safe option is if there is a foul in the box, don't try and wait and see/play advantage unless it's practically an open goal tap in, otherwise the situation can get messy - a penalty is more or less one of the best opportunities the attacking team will get outside of an open-goal, so perhaps be quicker on the whistle.
 
Yes, adult goals with U14s I have no idea how they didn't score. I am too slow with my whistle and that's what I am trying to get faster on.

Thanks very much.
 
I played advantage in the penalty area once and instantly regretted it. It was only a couple of seasons ago.

My game went from bad to worse that day and it's something I learned a lot from.

You've heard of the old saying: "Don't ever ever ask a woman when the baby is due unless you can actually see a baby pushing itself out of there?" :D

Well: Don't ever play advantage in the penalty area unless you can actually see the ball heading into an open net!! ;) :cool:
 
I played advantage in the penalty area once and instantly regretted it. It was only a couple of seasons ago.

My game went from bad to worse that day and it's something I learned a lot from.

You've heard of the old saying: "Don't ever ever ask a woman when the baby is due unless you can actually see a baby pushing itself out of there?" :D

Well: Don't ever play advantage in the penalty area unless you can actually see the ball heading into an open net!! ;):cool:

Yes, regretting it was what has been going through my mind. It was harder to miss than to score (adult goal, goalkeeper is about 41/2 foot), but they were only 13, so many chances do go amiss.

I don't think it helped that the coaches for that same team were against every decision, every tackle, every throw in, every offside (they were stood on the halfway line and were shouting at the AR that someone was offside on the 18 yard box). I heard more from them than I heard players talking on the pitch. Although it was a good game, and a good game to officiate, it gets difficult to drown the shouters out and concentrate!
 
Don't ever play advantage in the penalty area unless you can actually see the ball heading into an open net!! ;):cool:

i'd echo this, 99 times out of 100 the team will prefer the pen

I've done it once and was being assessed by @lincs22!

striker and keeper closing in on the ball, striker knocks it past the keeper who then clatters into him, ball rolls immediately to a striker to stick the ball into the empty net..."play on advantage". that's the 1 in 100 situation i think!
 
I did it on an FA Cup game and have never done it since such was the trouble it caused me. Playing advantage in the area is incredibly risky, and I suspect more referees will have scars from this than those that doing so helped their game.
 
USSF has long advocated a slow whistle and no advantage single in the PA. The idea being that a goal is the only result more advantageous than a PK.

There has always been a conceptual flaw in that, however, as an open net and an easily controllable ball can be a better chance than a PK. (My theory was that they got tired of poor use of advantage in the PA, and decided a bright line "goal or PK" was going to pan out better in general. I am shocked at how many referees lose the concept that advantage only applies if the opportunity is better than the FK (or PK) that would be awarded.)

I don't know if there has been a change in that bright line at the top level teachings from USSF as, alas, I am not in that elite company.
 
I am shocked at how many referees lose the concept that advantage only applies if the opportunity is better than the FK (or PK) that would be awarded.)
Think this arises because of constant pressure from players who wish to carry on rather than take the, clearly advantageous, FK. And the players would justify this because they see it happening every time high quality football is on the TV. In the end, it can be an easier life at grassroots just to go along with the (incorrect) player contention that possession IS advantage :rolleyes:
 
Today I so happy with my officiating. It was a tough game with a red card after 13 minutes (violent conduct). The away team said I did a great job, it was a superb game of football after the 13 minutes, and it actually a joy to officiate.

However one thing that has gone through my mind is an incident where there was a foul towards the inside edge of the area. However, before I had a chance to blow my whistle, the attacking team continued for not even 3-4s, unchallenged, around 8-10 yards from goal, and then he smashed it over the bar (keeper still on their line, U14s). I had the whistle in my mouth but the thought was, let him shoot.

Even if I had blown my whistle, the player still would have had time to shoot, or shot as I blew my whistle.

To me, I felt the advantage was enough not to warrant bringing it back. Having had the chance, if they missed and I then brought it back for a penalty, then it would be unfair, just as if they had scored, and I brought it back, again it would have been unfair.

If the player had been challenged, or keeper was actually not standing like a statue, I would have blown.

Thoughts?
When playing (or not) advantage in the PA, best case scenario outcome is easy to manage no matter what. It's the worst case scenario outcome you need to think about. Which do you prefer, you play advantage and they don't score, or you give a penalty but they score a second or two later (disallowed)?

I'd go for the latter (giving a pen) unless I am certain they are going to score.
 
Instead of playing advantage (in the arms up, shouting out sense), why not just quietly let play progress for two seconds and then make your decision?

I "shouted" (whistle in mouth, but said as loud as I could) as soon as I realised the attacker had a great opportunity to score, rather than just as he received the ball. And that is why I questioned whether I should have or not.

The foul meant the ball landed to an attacker who was unmarked (it was a pass across from just inside the edge of the area), unchallenged and all he had to do was pass it into the net (U14s game in adult goals) from 8-10 yards. He had a time, which is when I then used advantage, but instead the player decided to absolutely whallop the ball and thus over the bar.

Are you saying that what I should do is say nothing - and depending on how the shot goes, give advantage/penalty based on the outcome of the shot? Because that's the bit I questioned myself. Was it advantage? Of course it was. He had a free, unchallenged shot at goal. Outside the box there wouldn't have been any questioning of my decision. The coaches and managers on the sideline didn't shout "penalty" until the attacker had shot and missed. I just felt, even if I hadn't shouted advantage, then giving them two chances (if they missed the advantage shot), would be unfair.

Obviously next time, from other replies, if there's a foul in a box, don't bother, just blow the whistle.
 
Think this arises because of constant pressure from players who wish to carry on rather than take the, clearly advantageous, FK. And the players would justify this because they see it happening every time high quality football is on the TV. In the end, it can be an easier life at grassroots just to go along with the (incorrect) player contention that possession IS advantage :rolleyes:

It's one thing I think I am going to push back on myself - giving advantage. A get a bit of slack every game from players and coaches who want the free kick until they go on and score. Which happened in this same match. "Ref free kick!" multiple times, but playing advantage which then came of nothing,, but then nothing from the sidelines when one of the players then kept going and then scored.

From the sidelines advantage always has to end up as a shot on goal.
 
It's one thing I think I am going to push back on myself - giving advantage. A get a bit of slack every game from players and coaches who want the free kick until they go on and score. Which happened in this same match. "Ref free kick!" multiple times, but playing advantage which then came of nothing,, but then nothing from the sidelines when one of the players then kept going and then scored.

From the sidelines advantage always has to end up as a shot on goal.

If a player from the fouled team complains about giving an advantage I usually give zero advantages to that team, quoting the player every time.
 
I "shouted" (whistle in mouth, but said as loud as I could) as soon as I realised the attacker had a great opportunity to score, rather than just as he received the ball. And that is why I questioned whether I should have or not.

The foul meant the ball landed to an attacker who was unmarked (it was a pass across from just inside the edge of the area), unchallenged and all he had to do was pass it into the net (U14s game in adult goals) from 8-10 yards. He had a time, which is when I then used advantage, but instead the player decided to absolutely whallop the ball and thus over the bar.

Are you saying that what I should do is say nothing - and depending on how the shot goes, give advantage/penalty based on the outcome of the shot? Because that's the bit I questioned myself. Was it advantage? Of course it was. He had a free, unchallenged shot at goal. Outside the box there wouldn't have been any questioning of my decision. The coaches and managers on the sideline didn't shout "penalty" until the attacker had shot and missed. I just felt, even if I hadn't shouted advantage, then giving them two chances (if they missed the advantage shot), would be unfair.

Obviously next time, from other replies, if there's a foul in a box, don't bother, just blow the whistle.

Yes that's exactly what I am saying. Wait for the player to shoot and see. If he scores, signal the advantage and then the goal and you look like a hero; he doesn't score and call the PK and it looks normal. While you're at it, keep your whistle out of your mouth until you're ready to blow it.
 
Yes that's exactly what I am saying. Wait for the player to shoot and see. If he scores, signal the advantage and then the goal and you look like a hero; he doesn't score and call the PK and it looks normal. While you're at it, keep your whistle out of your mouth until you're ready to blow it.
Not exactly. The striker has a free shot and misses, you give a pen and that won't be normal. You'd be the villain and be surrounded by the defender's telling you you are giving the striker two bites at the cherry and they'd be right.
 
Yes that's exactly what I am saying. Wait for the player to shoot and see. If he scores, signal the advantage and then the goal and you look like a hero; he doesn't score and call the PK and it looks normal. While you're at it, keep your whistle out of your mouth until you're ready to blow it.

Both good points (especially the second, actually - which is something I have to remind myself about - players and managers notice that and it makes you look indecisive).

The only downside is if it takes an age to complete. I did this once in a pretty bad-tempered game, foul came just after the shot towards an empty net so I had to wait to see if it went in. I think I even pointed to it then to the foul to indicate what I'd do if it missed. Ball slowed in the mud then hit the post, at which point I gave the pen. Everything right in law, but I think it looked poor.
 
Both good points (especially the second, actually - which is something I have to remind myself about - players and managers notice that and it makes you look indecisive).

The only downside is if it takes an age to complete. I did this once in a pretty bad-tempered game, foul came just after the shot towards an empty net so I had to wait to see if it went in. I think I even pointed to it then to the foul to indicate what I'd do if it missed. Ball slowed in the mud then hit the post, at which point I gave the pen. Everything right in law, but I think it looked poor.

If it is taking forever to complete just blow for the foul. If it takes him more than a few seconds to get set for the shot, there is no advantage there.
 
Not exactly. The striker has a free shot and misses, you give a pen and that won't be normal. You'd be the villain and be surrounded by the defender's telling you you are giving the striker two bites at the cherry and they'd be right.

I am also giving two bites at the cherry to a midfielder to pick out a pass when he loses possession within a few seconds of a foul in the midfield. The defenders committed the foul, they have no right to be upset that I am punishing it.
 
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