A&H

Advice on Fouls

Harey

Harey

Member
Hi,

I am still a new referee (in my view!) having only qualified at the end of last season. I've done about 10 games so far.

This evening I refereed a U16 Friendly. Game went well, a couple of areas I spotted for improvement next time. I know the home manager, thus the reason to be refereeing the game, and he gave me some feedback at the end.

He highlighted that I didn't stop for enough fouls, and missed some off the ball fouls behind me. So I am after advice on:
  • What is the recommended level for stopping on fouls, I thought I had given them all, but he must have thought otherwise; so what do newbies miss here?
  • How do you recommend spotting off the ball fouls, especially those behind you; clearly I am probably concentrating on the active play?
Thanks
Chris
 
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Harey said:
Hi,

I am still a new referee (in my view!) having only qualified at the end of last season. I've done about 10 games so far.

This evening I refereed a U16 Friendly. Game went well, a couple of areas I spotted for improvement next time. I know the home manager, thus the reason to be refereeing the game, and he gave me some feedback at the end.

He highlighted that I didn't stop for enough fouls, and missed some off the ball fouls behind me. So I am after advice on:
  • What is the recommended level for stopping on fouls, I thought I had given them all, but he must have thought otherwise; so what do newbies miss here?
  • How do you recommend spotting off the ball fouls, especially those behind you; clearly I am probably concentrating on the active play?
Thanks
Chris
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Sounds like your foul recognition is ok to me. Maybe the coach couldn't be impartial

Following the ball is just a novice thing. You'll learn to trail an eye and linger for longer as you get more experience
 
Harey said:
What is the recommended level for stopping on fouls, I thought I had given them all, but he must have thought otherwise; so what do newbies miss here?
Click to expand...

There's no right answer. Some games you'll need to come down on top of every foul, others you can play advantage all day long, it will depend entirely on the mood of the match and occasion. You'll get experience on this over the years, and assessors will guide you on this as well.

Harey said:
How do you recommend spotting off the ball fouls, especially those behind you; clearly I am probably concentrating on the active play?
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Two elements for me:

1. Linger at flash points - If someone makes a pass, you should keep an eye on the person making the pass to watch for any late follow through challenges. Once that challenge has ended and you're sure nothing's happening, then move on. This is something you'll have to balance out when you referee, sometimes you will linger too long and miss things when play has moved on. These things will happen, just practice it.

2. Positioning - If you can get a wider view of the play you can ideally keep an eye on where the ball is going whilst keeping an eye on off the ball incidents. This isn't always possible, for example if a ball is played across you, suddenly you have to turn to keep up with play, so you can't grow eyes in the back of your head. In these situations, you'll rely on the A/R to cover for you, but on your own, just have to bite the "miss".

So, try and think of how you can position yourself to catch where play is and where play is likely to go, so that you can keep everything in view. If you're getting things happening behind you, then you may be too central, or failing to read where play is going. If you're missing things just outside of your vision, you may be getting too close to play - try and consider tactical fouls that the opposition will commit via moving/blocking an attacker's movement etc.
 
Thanks all. I think it's down to my positioning, and trying to still stay close to the action. I need to be far enough away that I have a wider view, so I will look to adjust my positioning at the next game.
 
Agree with above. I'd add to keeping a trailing eye (or lingering). With experience, in most cases, you get to know when a late tackle is coming even before the ball is passed. A lot of factors there.. Some are
  • The defender is running in too hard (can't stop in time)
  • Key play makers passing the ball. (attempts to intimidate them by late tackles).
  • Known 'dirty' players going for challenge
  • Revenge tackles
Foul recognition itself (even with good distance and angle) is not something you can teach very easily. The best way to learn is to do lots and lots of games. Talking grassroots, putting 50-50s aside, in my experience average foul recognition for a brand new referee is below 50%, around 60% for one year of experience. You'd need a good around 10 years experience to take that into the 90s. There are exceptions to the norm though. (I like stats :) )
 
Thanks @one

I have to admit, part of me felt deflated on the feedback. I felt even with knowing I had room for improvement, the game had gone well. So the feedback was good to get, but left me thinking "I called every foul I saw, but clearly missed some, but I don't know what I missed, otherwise I would have called for it." So I've spent overnight replaying the game in my mind to see where I could have missed some. There was some strong tackles, but they were 50/50 and not in my view excessive force.

I am certainly going to try and improve my positioning, to see if this helps in spotting ones I've missed.
 
All good. Its good to aim high and working on getting there. But don't set your expectations higher than realistic. All that does is causing disappointment. Accept that you will make mistakes, more so in your earlier years.

The best way to recognise a foul is to be in the best place to see it. So by all means you should look at improving your positioning. Once you have seen it then recognising it as a foul (or not) is an art. Its not black and white. There is also a level of tolerance/threshold that changes with every game or situation. And of course there is the colour of jersey you are wearing. What a coach may see as a genuine foul may well be a foul in his eyes, fair tackle by the opposite coach and a 50-50 from a natural. As I mentioned above, a lot of factors involved. Work on your positioning, alertness and awareness. Experience comes with time.
 
Hi @Harey - I’m about three years into my refereeing “career” and reading this post reminded me of a great tip I got from this forum about this time last year, which really helped my game develop over the last season.

Look out for the poor first touch. It happens at all levels, but more so the lower down you go.

When a player receives the ball, and doesn’t bring it immeadiatly under control, perhaps letting in run further in front of him than hoped, it invites the opposition to make a challenge they might not otherwise have done so, often a 50/50, sometimes the player clears/passes the ball in a hurry but the tackler is committed so maybe a “late” tackle.

Of course we should be alert at all times, but your attention should be heightened when the first touch is poor.

HTH

J
 
Thanks again @one that helps and does give me the confidence. You're right, it is a learning process, and a manager will have a bias/difference point of view. Also, its good to be realistic that a manager will have high expectations, and I need to set about improving on each game.
 
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RefJef said:
Hi @Harey - I’m about three years into my refereeing “career” and reading this post reminded me of a great tip I got from this forum about this time last year, which really helped my game develop over the last season.

Look out for the poor first touch. It happens at all levels, but more so the lower down you go.
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Thanks @RefJef, great advice, and I will incorporate in my next game.
 
Harey said:
This evening I refereed a U16 Friendly. Game went well, a couple of areas I spotted for improvement next time. I know the home manager, thus the reason to be refereeing the game, and he gave me some feedback at the end.

He highlighted that I didn't stop for enough fouls, and missed some off the ball fouls behind me.
Click to expand...

I don't know how old you are Chris or whether or not this home team manager is a friend of yours, but as a referee, don't hold too much sway with what his opinion of your decisions is. He's a coach and (unless he's a referee as well?) probably knows as much about the LOTG (and what actually constitutes a fair challenge on his own players) as his players do. ;)

Always take "advice" on board mate, but never forget that you alone are the referee and if you see a challenge that you think doesn't warrant a free kick then it doesn't follow that you're wrong because he thinks you are. :)

I'm guessing you may have missed the odd potential free kick behind you during this match through lack of experience in employing the "trailing eye" already mentioned on here but that will come. :cool:
 
Thanks @Kes. I am sadly in my late 40s! I know the manager as that of my eldest sons football team, and he needed a ref for a friendly.

You're absolutely right about the LOTG, as I had to clarify the new GK rule during the game to the managers!

I always looking to improve, which is why I was keen to explore this one. As said, my biggest challenge was knowing what I had missed, as I didn't know I had missed it!

I am glad I raised this thread, as there's been some excellent advice, which I am sure will help massively in my next game.
 
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Harey said:
Thanks @Kes. I am sadly in my late 40s! I know the manager as that of my eldest sons football team, and he needed a ref for a friendly.

You're absolutely right about the LOTG, as I had to clarify the new GK rule during the game to the managers!

I always looking to improve, which is why I was keen to explore this one. As said, my biggest challenge was knowing what I had missed, as I didn't know I had missed it!

I am glad I raised this thread, as there's been some excellent advice, which I am sure will help massively in my next game.
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I replayed some of my earlier games overnight, ruminating about this and that. Glad to say i haven't chewed over a game for a while now, so i'm betting you'll follow suit. Unless the feedback is coming from a neutral pair of trusted eyes, take it with a pinch of salt and trust your instincts when self-appraising
 
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You're completely right @Big Cat I've have spent too much time thinking about it, and wondering what I missed! The feedback has been excellent, as I now have some great recommendations to feed into my next game.
 
Harey said:
. There was some strong tackles, but they were 50/50 and not in my view excessive force.
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This is tongue in cheek so don't take it the wrong way but if your bar for a foul is excessive force then you certainly need to lower your tolerance level ;)
 
No, it's a good point, and the reason I highlighted; as I wondered if this was the difference on 'missing' the fouls.

What is the opinion on a tackle, which if it's not careless, reckless or using excessive force, but strong/forceful. I couldn't see a reason to give against the LOTG, but what is that level?
 
The strength of a tackle is not the only criteria - the lightest tap of an ankle can be a foul. Assuming a challenge which results in contact is not reckless or using excessive force the main criteria for me is whether the tackling player gets to the ball 'clean' ie. without contact before getting the ball or with very light contact that makes no difference to the outcome.

A defender is chasing a forward, goes for the ball, misses, makes a light tap on the forward's ankle whose run is affected as a result: foul (but look for advantage).

A defender running beside and slightly behind an attacker slides in, kicks the ball away, attacker trips over him: no foul (got the ball clean).

I would echo the recommendation to treat feedback on your refereeing performance from coaches with a pinch of salt.
 
Trip said:
The strength of a tackle is not the only criteria - the lightest tap of an ankle can be a foul. Assuming a challenge which results in contact is not reckless or using excessive force the main criteria for me is whether the tackling player gets to the ball 'clean' ie. without contact before getting the ball or with very light contact that makes no difference to the outcome.

A defender is chasing a forward, goes for the ball, misses, makes a light tap on the forward's ankle whose run is affected as a result: foul (but look for advantage).

A defender running beside and slightly behind an attacker slides in, kicks the ball away, attacker trips over him: no foul (got the ball clean).

I would echo the recommendation to treat feedback on your refereeing performance from coaches with a pinch of salt.
Click to expand...

I'd suggest a very large wheelbarrow full of salt!
 
Harey said:
No, it's a good point, and the reason I highlighted; as I wondered if this was the difference on 'missing' the fouls.

What is the opinion on a tackle, which if it's not careless, reckless or using excessive force, but strong/forceful. I couldn't see a reason to give against the LOTG, but what is that level?
Click to expand...
There are some definitions in the LOTG but even that uses vague words like "lack of attention or consideration". It comes down to experience and watching other referees to be consistent with (dare I use those words) "what football expects".

Even that varies. For example in a tense game when players turn up to kick the sh!t out of each other instead of playing the game, you lower your tolerance to send a message across that you don't put up with it. If they are not there to play the game, then there is no point in you letting the game flow. On the other hand if players have eyes for the ball only and just want to get on with the game, then your tolerance is higher, let them play and generally don't stop the game for trivial low level fouls (which usually don't have an impact on play).

Unfortunately, there is no silver bullet.
 
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