RefSix

Anybody remember this match? Ref awarded a PK, not seen by any cameras except a single fan camera

CapnBloodbeard

RefChat Addict
I have a vague recollection of a match....I think a few decades ago, high level. May have been world cup, but perhaps it was just high level national comp.
Referee awarded a penalty for something none of the players saw, so they all went ballistic (though they go ballistic even if they did see it). Problem is, none of the TV cameras showed the foul - so there was outrage over this penalty being awarded for what was seen as a completely fictional foul.
It wasn't until a some time later when a fan behind the goals with a video camera released their footage which showed a clear handful of shirt by a defender - thus finally vindicating the referee.

Does anybody remember any details at all about this game?
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Actually it was seen and recorded by the broadcasting cameras but they edited it out to create controversy. That's the way media worked back then. I don't think much has changed, except for the contractual obligation that they have to provide all footage to VAR room. See around 1.55 where the cut starts immediately after shirt pull. The camera was recording way before that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lNODXuA6k
 

Peter Grove

RefChat Addict
According to what I remember and the various articles I've read about this, it was not caught by any of the TV broadcast cameras, which were French. An article published in le Figaro states this:
Les ralentis diffusés laissent penser qu'il n'y a pas faute
Translation: "The broadcast slow-motion replays suggested there was no foul."

Referee wrongly accused by the media

Instead, it was apparently caught by a Swedish TV crew filming for a World Cup documentary and nobody knew about the footage until it was shown on Swedish TV two days later.
Two days of heavy world-wide criticism of the decision by the ‘American’ referee ensued, until a Swedish television station broadcast unseen footage that clearly showed the penalty decision to be correct.
US Soccer article about Esse Baharmast
 
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one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Don't believe what you read in media. Below are two stills two from different camera angles form the broadcasters. They are the first frames of the footage they broadcaster from the incident. Notice both these frames start a fraction of a second after the shirts pull. The big sporting events are shot with multiple cameras continuously shooting from different angles with specific cameras responsible to cover certain things. They don't just start/stop shooting. The streams are then fed to a location/editor (don't know his/her role name) who switches between camera for live broadcast. When it comes to replays, they choose the exact frame to start the replays. The chances of both these cameras being "switched off" off or not focused on the incident a fraction of a second before these frames is less than me refereeing in the next world cup.

The broadcasters had the footage. They chose not to show it. Once the Swedish crew released their footage, they had no option but to say we didn't have the footage, otherwise it would have been an obvious attempt to manipulate public opinions. Even now, changing of perception of reality by editing footage happens a lot in reality TV shows an dodgy current affair and 60 minutes type programs.



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alexv

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Actually it was seen and recorded by the broadcasting cameras but they edited it out to create controversy. That's the way media worked back then. I don't think much has changed, except for the contractual obligation that they have to provide all footage to VAR room. See around 1.55 where the cut starts immediately after shirt pull. The camera was recording way before that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-lNODXuA6k
That's a great video, definitely recommend if anyone's not seen it before
 

Peter Grove

RefChat Addict
Don't believe what you read in media. Below are two stills two from different camera angles form the broadcasters. They are the first frames of the footage they broadcaster from the incident. Notice both these frames start a fraction of a second after the shirts pull. The big sporting events are shot with multiple cameras continuously shooting from different angles with specific cameras responsible to cover certain things. They don't just start/stop shooting. The streams are then fed to a location/editor (don't know his/her role name) who switches between camera for live broadcast. When it comes to replays, they choose the exact frame to start the replays. The chances of both these cameras being "switched off" off or not focused on the incident a fraction of a second before these frames is less than me refereeing in the next world cup.

The broadcasters had the footage. They chose not to show it.
I think you're assuming a lot of facts not in evidence. Even if the camera you're talking about and which had the footage from just after the shirt pull was recording, there's no guarantee it was following Tore Andre Flo at the time and/or that it was zoomed in to the same extent as subsequently.

Also, where is the motivation for French live TV broadcasters, with no dog in the fight, so to speak, to "hide" the footage if they had it? Their job is to show their TV audience what is going on live, as it happens. Pundits and analysts might have more of an interest in stoking controversy (though even then, I think that's a bit of a stretch to think they would all conspire to hide the true facts) but the actual live broadcast crew would in my opinion have no incentive to do so - they would not be involved in any subsequent discussion, their only concern is with the game itself.

Ultimately though, I believe in sticking with the evidence we have. There is no evidence that I've seen, supporting the idea of a conspiracy to hide the footage and the best information we have, in the form of written reports from the time and personal accounts of people who were there, indicates that no-one (in France at least) had access to any footage showing the shirt pull until two days after the game.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
I gave a few of those that baffled a few players at corners especially. Player dragging his opponent don’t before it got to him etc. The throng don’t know what happened, the fouler and the foulee knew....the rest just see penalty-decision and are none the wiser. No VAR just my vigilant mince pies on duty for skullduggery! I was that type of player so I know what to look for! 😎
 
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