RefSix

AR - which hand?

WilliamD

Well-Known Member
#1
One thing I always dread on the line is when I have to put the flag straight up quickly to signal the ball has gone out of play (you know close ones on the touch line or goal line) I seem to always have the flag in the wrong hand for the direction of the throw. Had it about 4 times last night including a goal where the ball just crossed the line.

Are we meant to transfer the flag to the proper signalling hand before putting it straight up? I think the answer is yes - just can’t get it sorted when, for example, the play is to my left and I’m down the line a bit, flag down, in my left hand, closest to ref, and the ball barely goes over the line for an attacking throw in, I want to signal quickly to let everyone know it’s out but I end up putting the flag up with my left hand and then the awkward above the head switch to signal the attacking throw.
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#2
One thing I always dread on the line is when I have to put the flag straight up quickly to signal the ball has gone out of play (you know close ones on the touch line or goal line) I seem to always have the flag in the wrong hand for the direction of the throw. Had it about 4 times last night including a goal where the ball just crossed the line.

Are we meant to transfer the flag to the proper signalling hand before putting it straight up? I think the answer is yes - just can’t get it sorted when, for example, the play is to my left and I’m down the line a bit, flag down, in my left hand, closest to ref, and the ball barely goes over the line for an attacking throw in, I want to signal quickly to let everyone know it’s out but I end up putting the flag up with my left hand and then the awkward above the head switch to signal the attacking throw.
Key here is to take your time. Yes you know the ball bas gone out but there is zero rush to flag it. Take a second, think of the direction then signal with that hand.

As a development point, I know it's hard, but try not to swap the flag in the air. If you signal.with the wrong hand, bring the flag down, change hands below, and then signal the correct direction.

No easy fix I am afraid.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#3
Practice, practice, practice. It's about speed of thought just as much as speed of action. Always think direction first then think about signalling. Then synch your actions with your thoughts. Do this often enough it becomes second nature. I used to have this problem all the time but now it only happens to me once every 10 games or so, if that.
 

Martiju

Active Member
#4
Like refereeing in the middle, you have more time than you think. The referee and you can and should communicate by eye before almost every decision, giving you a couple of seconds at least to think 'direction' then 'hand' then 'signal'. The danger comes when you feel the need to whip the flag in the air straight away and miss steps in this short process. As one says, it's all about practice.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#6
Don't panic is correct, but....I'm going to slightly contradict the others and say that I think in this situation there may be a degree of urgency. If it's a close in/out of play, chances are the ref will give you a quick glance, make eye contact and then move on if there's no flag. Faffing about trying to work out which hand the flag should be in might mean that he misses the flag, assumes you're signalling that the ball is still in play and then give a big "Still in play" shout. He won't thank you if you then immediately stick your flag up to contradict him.

I'd suggest that getting the flag up to clarify should be your first priority, to make sure the ref knows the ball is out. You can then drop the flag, make sure it's in the right hand (via low signals with the ref if there's any doubt) and then put it back up for a normal "throw-in" signal. There's a good chance he'll know which direction the throw should be anyway, so in that situation, all your directional flag is doing is confirming his decision. And it will look a lot neater than having him shout "still in play" followed immediately by a whistle to signal that he was previously wrong.
 

Justylove

RefChat Addict
#7
I did an AR session a few weeks ago as part of the County Core FA Program. We had a National League AR tutoring us and he told us that if you are signalling for the ball over the line for a goal, then you should put the flag up in your LEFT HAND.

That way when the referee looks across at you, they will know you are signalling for a goal, not for a ball out of play or an infringement.

I'd never come across that before.

But in answer to the OP. Even if you need to give a quick signal, you do have more time than you think!
 
#8
Don't panic is correct, but....I'm going to slightly contradict the others and say that I think in this situation there may be a degree of urgency. If it's a close in/out of play, chances are the ref will give you a quick glance, make eye contact and then move on if there's no flag. Faffing about trying to work out which hand the flag should be in might mean that he misses the flag, assumes you're signalling that the ball is still in play and then give a big "Still in play" shout. He won't thank you if you then immediately stick your flag up to contradict him.

I'd suggest that getting the flag up to clarify should be your first priority, to make sure the ref knows the ball is out. You can then drop the flag, make sure it's in the right hand (via low signals with the ref if there's any doubt) and then put it back up for a normal "throw-in" signal. There's a good chance he'll know which direction the throw should be anyway, so in that situation, all your directional flag is doing is confirming his decision. And it will look a lot neater than having him shout "still in play" followed immediately by a whistle to signal that he was previously wrong.
Ooh G... I don't know if I agree... I find that focusing on the first thing, which is changing hands, is the most important... because that acts as your tip to the referee in many cases. Getting the direction right and agreed with your ref is most important. Raising the flag comes after.
 
#9
I did an AR session a few weeks ago as part of the County Core FA Program. We had a National League AR tutoring us and he told us that if you are signalling for the ball over the line for a goal, then you should put the flag up in your LEFT HAND.

That way when the referee looks across at you, they will know you are signalling for a goal, not for a ball out of play or an infringement.

I'd never come across that before.
Cripes.
Can anyone corroborate that... because that's not what they are doing on the telly I believe?
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#10
Ooh G... I don't know if I agree... I find that focusing on the first thing, which is changing hands, is the most important... because that acts as your tip to the referee in many cases. Getting the direction right and agreed with your ref is most important. Raising the flag comes after.
I think we're disagreeing here about what is more important - for me, it's getting the game stopped so that nothing "controversial" happens when the match should have been stopped. The restart comes after the match has been stopped, therefore sorting out the correct restart can come after sorting out if the match should be stopped or not.

I also think it's important to consider how many people are going to be fussed which hand the flag is in for a straight above the head flag. I'd suggest the answer is 2: you and the ref. Everyone else is going to see a signal saying that the ball is out of play and nothing else. Especially if you then drop the flag and follow it up with a separate signal to clarify the restart, no "civilian" will know that you have technically given slightly conflicting signals.
 

Justylove

RefChat Addict
#11
Cripes.
Can anyone corroborate that... because that's not what they are doing on the telly I believe?
Bear in mind on the TV and at higher levels, they have comms systems and GLT, so if the flag is up, then the AR is likely shouting to the referee "GOAL" plus his device on his wrist is going mad vibrating that its a goal.

This is supply league level, highest level of tech is going to be buzzer flags, depending on the referee.
 

Hoosier Ref

Well-Known Member
#12
If I'm CR and we get a quick in/out flag and this has happened, I'm generally blowing the whistle as the AR brings the flag down in front and switches hands. Our basic training included switching down and in front if necessary (never over head) which I would think implies that switching is acceptable. It is best to avoid it if you can. As CR once I have whistled it out, I generally will be pausing for eye contact and see if AR and I are on same page on which way the throw or kick should be going. No need to rush the direction indication. As with offside - it is better to be slow and right than fast and wrong.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
#16
For a close goal no goal surely it would be flag up and then (providing you don’t need to clarify something with the red) you’d be on your toes down the touch line.

I’ve always been taught to never signal with my left arm (assuming I’m runn right back and it isn’t a throw to the defending team) as it can obscure your view of the referee and thus preventing eye contact etc
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#17
I think we're disagreeing here about what is more important - for me, it's getting the game stopped so that nothing "controversial" happens when the match should have been stopped. The restart comes after the match has been stopped, therefore sorting out the correct restart can come after sorting out if the match should be stopped or not.

I also think it's important to consider how many people are going to be fussed which hand the flag is in for a straight above the head flag. I'd suggest the answer is 2: you and the ref. Everyone else is going to see a signal saying that the ball is out of play and nothing else. Especially if you then drop the flag and follow it up with a separate signal to clarify the restart, no "civilian" will know that you have technically given slightly conflicting signals.
No, take your time and flag with the correct hand, even if it is a tight one. I gave minor development advice to a supply league assistant last week for putting the flag up, dropping it and then changing to the correct hand. It looks messy and is unnecessary.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#18
No, take your time and flag with the correct hand, even if it is a tight one. I gave minor development advice to a supply league assistant last week for putting the flag up, dropping it and then changing to the correct hand. It looks messy and is unnecessary.
In general I agree with this but there are times i'd like a quick flag, most preferably with the correct hand, but I want it quick. For instance when the ball is just over the line for a goal, or when a winger who runs around a defender to get inside the penalty area very close to the goal line, and he cuts the ball back in is very likely to end up being a goal. Now if the ball is just gone over the goal line before it is cut back in, I want a very quick flag. A "take your time" flag conveys indecisiveness which could cause issues on a goal no goal situation.

Out for a TI or a foul near the touch line, take more time to get it right.
 

RefJef

RefChat Addict
#19
Going off on a bit of a tangent ( but related) - I’ve had this scenario a couple times recently (again today) and I’d be interested in your thoughts.

Ball down the far end of the pitch (from me as AR), couple of players competing for the ball near the touch line. Ball goes out, but comes back in: I need to flag to tell ref ball has gone out, but I can’t tell whose throw (ref in much better position to call that, but won’t be sure if ball has crossed line or not.)

Should I flag (I think so) to indicate ball out of play? But how do I deal with the fact I don’t whose through?

Thanks
J
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
#20
Going off on a bit of a tangent ( but related) - I’ve had this scenario a couple times recently (again today) and I’d be interested in your thoughts.

Ball down the far end of the pitch (from me as AR), couple of players competing for the ball near the touch line. Ball goes out, but comes back in: I need to flag to tell ref ball has gone out, but I can’t tell whose throw (ref in much better position to call that, but won’t be sure if ball has crossed line or not.)

Should I flag (I think so) to indicate ball out of play? But how do I deal with the fact I don’t whose through?

Thanks
J
Eye contact is key I think. Flag straight up, look at the referee, wait for a couple of seconds to see if the ref will give a direction, if not (assuming you have no comms), I think you just have to go for it and give a direction p
 
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