Ex pro's wanting to be referees
How many will stay and be interested after 18 months of it????
AND discuss
How many will stay and be interested after 18 months of it????
AND discuss
BBC article - Ex pro's wanting to be referees
- Thread starter lincs22
- Start date
I tweeted (and got a bollocking from footie twitter) that the PGMOL statement announcing this talks about improving the access for people from underrepresented backgrounds is odd because we 1. already have ex-professionals at the top level, I'd hazard a guess that there were more of them than women until very recently 2. they have done precisely nothing to improve class (I imagine less of an issue given football is a working class sport) or (more importantly in my very selfish opinion) disability!
So many industries where similar skills to referees (problem solving, analysis, decision making) have embraced neurodiversity for example, to the benefit of the organisations involved, nothing from PGMOL.
You're not going to suddenly make a physically uncapable referee able to pass fitness tests and things but with VAR arguably requiring specialists there's lots the PGMOL and FA could do and just don't.
I do think ex pros becoming referees is a good idea, but I don't think fast tracking is good or fair. They should have to go through the same system as us lot, and prove capability at the same level. I also think on a global basis people think that there are no ex pro refs. The last World Cup final was refereed by a former high level player!
Especially with the possibility under the new pathway of being a 7 in August and a 4 the following June!
Start them at 7, and take them through the same way as the rest of us.
If the pathway is built so we build skills and serve our time at each level to become better, what makes them any better - just because they used to be in the other changing room at the grounds we go to.
If the pathway is built so we build skills and serve our time at each level to become better, what makes them any better - just because they used to be in the other changing room at the grounds we go to.
They possess a skillset that 'we' don't have and will never have and the only way they'll be enticed into the roll is through a fast tracking system.
It's not like they'll get thrown in at step 1/2/3 immediately but it has to be this way - they wouldn't wait 7+ years to do it the 'proper' way.
No issues with this imo.
It's not like they'll get thrown in at step 1/2/3 immediately but it has to be this way - they wouldn't wait 7+ years to do it the 'proper' way.
No issues with this imo.
That could be an argument for, rather than against.
Tbh, I'm not really averse to trialling it, and a fast track pathway being available. Providing the same fast tracking is available to non-ex players which it is.
We shouldn't feel threatened by it. The way I see it as referees we all learn from one another and if we had some real experience join us on the dark side then that can only benefit the refereeing community as a whole.
We have ex players at the top already and it doesn't help
I know, I just feel if we had more it might. We don't have many (if any) former pros at the top in England (men's leagues), so having more would be a start. This doesn't change my opinion though that they shouldn't be going straight to PL/EFL/Step 1/2 level. The should have to work up the same way, even if it is slightly quicker than what we do.
Are there any other professions that have successfully fast tracked? Am I losing the plot, thinking a nurse could fast track to a doctor or bricklayer to a surveyor in three years?
Are playing skills very different to a referee? Or even transferable?
Is this a stupid analogy? Feel free to say so.
Are playing skills very different to a referee? Or even transferable?
Is this a stupid analogy? Feel free to say so.
Those examples are quite right but maybe the use of Physician associates vs GPs, but that's more conflicting roles rather than fast tracking. There are ways to fast track a law qualification to some extent, those with existing degrees do conversions rather than a whole undergrad.
Playing skills help with a lot around positioning and predicting where the ball will go next and understand player intentions.
You could argue anyone who watches football knows that though. I know I've certainly picked things up after watching football for 10+ years.
A pro is definitely a level above when it comes to physically applying that on a pitch. At least initially.
'Football' seems to want ex pros to be given the chance as referees. Unfortunately, if we're to see them at the top levels of the game then a fast tracking system of sorts has to be available as ex pros don't tend to become ex pros until their mid-30s. Chances of making it to the national list or better when you don't start until mid 30s is possible, but slim.
The amount we improve as referees rapidly drops off after a number of years IMO. My gu'estimation is that we don't improve beyond Level 2B
Proof being that we see the same mistakes at the same frequency at all levels above a certain level. I don't think that observation can be argued with. The difference between Referees becomes less and less (arguably luck being the difference, or face fits maybe)
Advancing through the levels is more about coping with the intimidation of bigger occasions/crowds/hysteria/pressure. Likely, the refs who don't progress are those who reach their tolerance of coping
Ex-players have the massive advantage of having already experienced that progression to the big stage, albeit in a different capacity
Controversial, I know, but that's just what I think
FWIW, the main problem with ex-players is perceived bias. I can't possibly see how an ex-player could ref in the same League as they played. Never gonna happen. The ex-player would have to be relatively 'unknown'
Proof being that we see the same mistakes at the same frequency at all levels above a certain level. I don't think that observation can be argued with. The difference between Referees becomes less and less (arguably luck being the difference, or face fits maybe)
Advancing through the levels is more about coping with the intimidation of bigger occasions/crowds/hysteria/pressure. Likely, the refs who don't progress are those who reach their tolerance of coping
Ex-players have the massive advantage of having already experienced that progression to the big stage, albeit in a different capacity
Controversial, I know, but that's just what I think
FWIW, the main problem with ex-players is perceived bias. I can't possibly see how an ex-player could ref in the same League as they played. Never gonna happen. The ex-player would have to be relatively 'unknown'
Great Point!
This is something that will need some significant consideration. As referees declare their allegiance and that if close family members, this would also have to be extended to teams played for and potentially that teams rivals. An appointing nightmare.
We've all seen the image of Howard Webb mocked up in a Man united Kit, the possibility here is that it won't be a mock up but a real life image from a former career. Optics will be difficult to manage, for sure.
Look at the Atwell shenanigans and that was all a very weak association
I can't possibly see how this scheme could be of interest to ex-EPL players. Not a cat in hells chance of that working out