BRE v Ips

[ladbroke8745]

Can't believe a Premier League referee needed VAR to bail him out for a penalty in this game. He was up with play, saw the incident entirely. Incident was Clarke holding onto Brentford player (Lewis Potter I think) that started outside but very clearly continued into the area by a couple of yards before actually being tugged down.
He gave a free kick outside the area (initially seeming to point about 2 yards outside before waiting on VAR).
Seems like he went with the ultra safe option of outside and hoping VAR would bail him out if wrong.

Other than that... He had a very good game I thought.

 

[RustyRef]

Can't believe a Premier League referee needed VAR to bail him out for a penalty in this game. He was up with play, saw the incident entirely. Incident was Clarke holding onto Brentford player (Lewis Potter I think) that started outside but very clearly continued into the area by a couple of yards before actually being tugged down.
He gave a free kick outside the area (initially seeming to point about 2 yards outside before waiting on VAR).
Seems like he went with the ultra safe option of outside and hoping VAR would bail him out if wrong.

Other than that... He had a very good game I thought.

At the risk of repeating myself, VAR hasn't bailed the referee out. It has ensured the correct sporting decision was reached, but the match officials will go down as an incorrect KMD (or whatever it is called these days). VAR correcting a refereeing decision absolutely does not bail the referee out, it will still go down as a mistake in their appraisal.

 

[Runner Ref]

Not a great onfield by Lewis, but such is life. VAR has helped him out, which it’s there for.

But marks at that level for referees means next to nothing.

 

[one]

At the risk of repeating myself, VAR hasn't bailed the referee out. It has ensured the correct sporting decision was reached, but the match officials will go down as an incorrect KMD (or whatever it is called these days). VAR correcting a refereeing decision absolutely does not bail the referee out, it will still go down as a mistake in their appraisal.

And also at the risk of repeating yourself , getting KMI's wrong has very little consequence for these guys. They are on contracts that can't be broken that easily. So getting KMI's wrong does next to nowt stopping referees relying on VAR.

 

[ladbroke8745]

Just seen the sending off for Clarke again.
2nd yellow.
Tackle wasn't reckless, he got the ball before Lewis Potter got there, just, and Lewis Potter, IMO, fell over him rather than was fouled.

What a day for Clarke eh. Own goal, penalty, and sending off. All on his debut.

 

[ladbroke8745]

And also at the risk of repeating yourself , getting KMI's wrong has very little consequence for these guys. They are on contracts that can't be broken that easily. So getting KMI's wrong does next to nowt stopping referees relying on VAR.

This referee I believe was on trial for promotion.

 

[FirsFox40]

What a day for Clarke eh. Own goal, penalty, and sending off. All on his debut.

I’d be taking the matchball home for that

 

[RustyRef]

And also at the risk of repeating yourself , getting KMI's wrong has very little consequence for these guys. They are on contracts that can't be broken that easily. So getting KMI's wrong does next to nowt stopping referees relying on VAR.

Referees have been demoted, albeit not recently. And the marks will still affect things like cup finals, play off finals, and certainly won't help a referee who was in effect on a trial game.

 

[Runner Ref]

Referees have been demoted, albeit not recently. And the marks will still affect things like cup finals, play off finals, and certainly won't help a referee who was in effect on a trial game.

Wouldn’t say they affect finals. They have limited resources for finals as there is simply not enough of them, so have to spread them round. Kevin Friend getting the League Cup Final in 2013 being prime example……

 

[RustyRef]

Wouldn’t say they affect finals. They have limited resources for finals as there is simply not enough of them, so have to spread them round. Kevin Friend getting the League Cup Final in 2013 being prime example……

May be, but the argument that the referee relies on VAR to bail them falls flat on its face when the referee is on a trial game. That's probably blown any chance he had of promotion any time soon, and he would have hardly thought I'm sure that's a penalty but I'm not going to give it and wait for VAR, I quite fancy a 7.9 and staying the the Championship for another year. No sane person would think like that.

 

[Big Cat]

And also at the risk of repeating yourself , getting KMI's wrong has very little consequence for these guys. They are on contracts that can't be broken that easily. So getting KMI's wrong does next to nowt stopping referees relying on VAR.

@one you're sounding my trumpet
I think what @RustyRef misunderstands (certainly in my case), is that nobody is saying (well I'm not saying this, at any rate) Referees are leaving it to VAR intentionally (That would be absurd). My argument is that it's an unintended psychological consequence of having the VAR to fall back on. I see it as a subconscious problem whereby the presence of VAR is causing many many more incorrect on-field KMI's
In all honesty, I'm not the model Referee, but I'd be seriously upset if I got this KMI wrong. When something doesn't make sense, we have to make sense of it somehow or another and the presence of VAR is very compelling.
Otherwise, I thought this Referee looked quite good

 

[RustyRef]

@one you're sounding my trumpet
I think what @RustyRef misunderstands (certainly in my case), is that nobody is saying (well I'm not saying this, at any rate) Referees are leaving it to VAR intentionally (That would be absurd). My argument is that it's an unintended psychological consequence of having the VAR to fall back on. I see it as a subconscious problem whereby the presence of VAR is causing many many more incorrect on-field KMI's
In all honesty, I'm not the model Referee, but I'd be seriously upset if I got this KMI wrong. When something doesn't make sense, we have to make sense of it somehow or another and the presence of VAR is very compelling.
Otherwise, I thought this Referee looked quite good

Fair point about it perhaps being subconscious. The audio will be interesting for this one, assuming we get to hear it, as the active AR also seemed to have a clear view of it and they would no doubt have been talking over comms. Between the two of them they really need to be getting that right.

 

[Gabriel]

But marks at that level for referees means next to nothing.

It will mean a lot for him. He's a League 1/2/NL ref, and is part of the development group. He's definitely on for elevation to Select Group 2, but not if he's making decisions like that. The correct outcome was reached eventually!

 

[Runner Ref]

It will mean a lot for him. He's a League 1/2/NL ref, and is part of the development group. He's definitely on for elevation to Select Group 2, but not if he's making decisions like that. The correct outcome was reached eventually!

Lewis will be just fine. He’s part of the group that they want to progress, so he will.

They get evaluated rather than observed. The marks on these mean next to sod all. He has done premier league games previously and had no issues. One bad ‘mark’ isn’t going to affect him in the same way it would someone down the pyramid.

 

[Big Cat]

I can only assume he forgot the Law in the moment as I don't think it could have been an error of judgement (pull continued well into PA)
As I say, he looked really comfortable in his own skin aside from that mistake (going off the highlights that is)

 

[socal lurker]

I can only assume he forgot the Law in the moment as I don't think it could have been an error of judgement (pull continued well into PA)
As I say, he looked really comfortable in his own skin aside from that mistake (going off the highlights that is)

I don’t buy that for a second. Guys who get to that level know that kind of routine element of the always forwards and backwards. He could easily have seen the foul and looked away to see if there was an advantage rather than watching the foul continue into the PA. Assuming these guys forget the basic Laws is silly. (On more arcane ones, maybe. A pro ref infamously moved an IFK in the GA to the side instead of the top, and then let the wall line up into the field for the goalpost 6 yards away. But that is something that almost never happens, not a routine matter.)

 

[DJIC]

Not a great onfield by Lewis, but such is life. VAR has helped him out, which it’s there for.

But marks at that level for referees means next to nothing.

Repeating myself, but anyone who believes it means next to nothing to a PGMOL official is absurd.

Most of us referee, train, learn LOTG, get fit, prepare pre match to have our best possible game, even at our level we are hugely disappointed in ourselves if we make an error, indicated by player reaction, VEO or whatever.

It is insane to think any PGMOL official goes home after a KMI error not caring or even getting a good night’s sleep.

A recent PGMOL official told our ref group recently he dreads getting a VAR call, he is certainly not hoping VAR bails him out.

 

[Runner Ref]

Repeating myself, but anyone who believes it means next to nothing to a PGMOL official is absurd.

Most of us referee, train, learn LOTG, get fit, prepare pre match to have our best possible game, even at our level we are hugely disappointed in ourselves if we make an error, indicated by player reaction, VEO or whatever.

It is insane to think any PGMOL official goes home after a KMI error not caring or even getting a good night’s sleep.

A recent PGMOL official told our ref group recently he dreads getting a VAR call, he is certainly not hoping VAR bails him out.

At no point has myself or anyone else said the officials don’t care whether they get a decision right or wrong. Of course they do. They’ve worked many years to get where they are and take pride in what they do.

But the marks once they get to this level mean nothing. They have pretty watertight contracts which means they won’t be going anywhere. The ones in the development groups like Lewis are virtually guaranteed to become SG1 officials. One bad ‘mark’ isn’t going to change that.

 

[DJIC]

At no point has myself or anyone else said the officials don’t care whether they get a decision right or wrong. Of course they do. They’ve worked many years to get where they are and take pride in what they do.

But the marks once they get to this level mean nothing. They have pretty watertight contracts which means they won’t be going anywhere. The ones in the development groups like Lewis are virtually guaranteed to become SG1 officials. One bad ‘mark’ isn’t going to change that.

But a good mark is derived by avoiding KMI errors & VAR interventions so repeatedly getting 7.9’s, week after week, is going to harm your future appointments.

The PGMOL referee group have had between two & eight referee match appointments each this season.

I can’t believe they are any different to us at grass roots & want the top of the table ‘big’ matches, so low marks will impact them.

 

[Runner Ref]

But a good mark is derived by avoiding KMI errors & VAR interventions so repeatedly getting 7.9’s, week after week, is going to harm your future appointments.

The PGMOL referee group have had between two & eight referee match appointments each this season.

I can’t believe they are any different to us at grass roots & want the top of the table ‘big’ matches, so low marks will impact them.

Yes, but the marks mean next to nothing. The same group of referees will always get the big games. There’s a reason Mike Jones or Lee Mason didn’t get any of the top 2 games.