RefSix

Card skins

alexv

Well-Known Member
#1
Looking to find some reusable card skins like the ones on Refsworld. I would get them but the regular size is unfortunately sold out. Is there anywhere else I can find some that ship to the UK?
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#2
Looking to find some reusable card skins like the ones on Refsworld. I would get them but the regular size is unfortunately sold out. Is there anywhere else I can find some that ship to the UK?
The process for discipline, requires that we take the player's name first. Therefore, I want to be doing this using a neutral notebook so that i can then move onto the second part of the process; informing the player what the sanction is for
By using skins, the order of this process is screwed up because the player can see whether it's yellow or red before the name has been recorded
Notebook is more versatile when we're not ordinarily permitted to show a 'quick' card
Just my thinking on the subject ;)
 

alexv

Well-Known Member
#3
The process for discipline, requires that we take the player's name first. Therefore, I want to be doing this using a neutral notebook so that i can then move onto the second part of the process; informing the player what the sanction is for
By using skins, the order of this process is screwed up because the player can see whether it's yellow or red before the name has been recorded
Notebook is more versatile when we're not ordinarily permitted to show a 'quick' card
Just my thinking on the subject ;)
Interesting, if I were to use these skins whilst being assessed would that be picked up? I’ve been using masking tape on my cards recently as it’s less fumbly and speeds up the process
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#4
if I were to use these skins whilst being assessed would that be picked up
Possibly. I'd be interested to know from 'forum observers'
Just to clarify, i understand the process to be
1) Record name
2) Indicate/explain sanction
3) Warn player accordingly (e.g. to avoid 2nd cation)
4) Show card
(I haven't copied and pasted the exact guidance, but I reckon this is it in a nutshell). I'm just saying that the skins makes step 2 premature
 
#5
Possibly. I'd be interested to know from 'forum observers'
Just to clarify, i understand the process to be
1) Record name
2) Indicate/explain sanction
3) Warn player accordingly (e.g. to avoid 2nd cation)
4) Show card
(I haven't copied and pasted the exact guidance, but I reckon this is it in a nutshell). I'm just saying that the skins makes step 2 premature


This is one that could vary locally, so from the chilly north.....its complicated !!

When observing, I need to see that the referee knows and can demonstrate the required procedure at the level he is at, so, yes, stop game if needed, isolate/meet half way whatever is apt, name/number, reason and show card.
However if the referee has say, 7/8/9 cautions, as long as I can establish he can carry out the caution procedure, then that's all I need to see, so, without being set in stone, if 5 of them were done as per procedure and the rest flashed, I can live it.
Very similar to the subs procedure, we dont need the ref to go over 28 times in a game to do it, but, show me that you know the procedure.
If the game requires a slow card, say, then, give me it, slow it down and do it as taught. This is filed under good managment as much as carrying out procedure.
And flip side, flash me a quick red and everything is defused, I will give credit.
Neat, tidy, minimum fuss, clear to all what is going on, to who, and controlled

If post match I need to clarify who has been cautioned, then already either am gen just checking, or, the caution was not isolated for example and card was simply thrown into a crowd of players. Which is not a good sign.

I have prev requested a total change to the guidelines (here), as, soon as these guys progress, the "good?" practise they have learnt and spent a few seasons showing off, gets binned.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#7
As an observer I have no problem with you using write on cards, but I have to see that you are obtaining the name as required. So I would support you taking their name and writing it on the card (although I can see that being fiddly), or having written down all of the names before the game and just ticking it off. What I couldn't support is just writing down the number on the card at the time of the caution as that doesn't meet the requirements.

What often happens is that the referees copy the Premier League officials, and because they have team sheets they just flash the card and write down the number on it. That is likely to land you in a bit of a mess with observers all the way up to level 2B.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#8
As an observer I have no problem with you using write on cards, but I have to see that you are obtaining the name as required. So I would support you taking their name and writing it on the card (although I can see that being fiddly), or having written down all of the names before the game and just ticking it off. What I couldn't support is just writing down the number on the card at the time of the caution as that doesn't meet the requirements.

What often happens is that the referees copy the Premier League officials, and because they have team sheets they just flash the card and write down the number on it. That is likely to land you in a bit of a mess with observers all the way up to level 2B.
Do you see the problem associated with a skin on a red card? On sight of the cherry, a player might go awry before the name has been taken
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#9
Do you see the problem associated with a skin on a red card? On sight of the cherry, a player might go awry before the name has been taken
Which is why a wallet with no cards in it may be a better option. The player won't know what is happening until after you have taken his name and you then pull the card from a pocket. A red is always going to be tricky with write on cards and the current required procedures in England. You can't write on the yellow as that sends out the wrong message when you then pull the red out, and as you say if you pull the red out to write on that isn't exactly going to make the recipient very cooperative.

Perhaps use a white write on card, take the name then put that away and pull the correct coloured card from a pocket. I think Jon Moss does similar.
 
#10
Which is why a wallet with no cards in it may be a better option. The player won't know what is happening until after you have taken his name and you then pull the card from a pocket. A red is always going to be tricky with write on cards and the current required procedures in England. You can't write on the yellow as that sends out the wrong message when you then pull the red out, and as you say if you pull the red out to write on that isn't exactly going to make the recipient very cooperative.

Perhaps use a white write on card, take the name then put that away and pull the correct coloured card from a pocket. I think Jon Moss does similar.
Good summary
Whilst skins on melons and cherries has its problems, I prefer the good old notebook; which is aptly suitable for writing other stuff in too ;)
 
#11
I'm not in England, so feel free to beat me up for this--but is that procedure archaic? With modern records and protocols, I would think recording the number in the heat of the moment is adequate--why ask for a name? And while I was explain a card, as needed, the reality is that for the overwhelming majority of cards, the reason for the card is obvious--why initiate a conversation with the player who may be easily irritable, either because he disagrees or is mad at himself. As someone noted above, these procedures go out the window at higher level, so why insist on them at lower levels?
 
#12
I'm not in England, so feel free to beat me up for this--but is that procedure archaic? With modern records and protocols, I would think recording the number in the heat of the moment is adequate--why ask for a name? And while I was explain a card, as needed, the reality is that for the overwhelming majority of cards, the reason for the card is obvious--why initiate a conversation with the player who may be easily irritable, either because he disagrees or is mad at himself. As someone noted above, these procedures go out the window at higher level, so why insist on them at lower levels?
I can only comment on grass roots football. At this level the process is a necessity because we must ascertain the player's name because team sheets can't be relied upon or are absent. Up a level to my local Supply League and the team sheets are good with the refs usually copying them into the notebook. Once the name is taken, I'm not one for lecturing the player. Typlically, I'll say, Unsporting Behaviour, you have x minutes to avoid a repeat blah blah. The aim being that we're then producing the card whilst the player is withing striking distance. Nothing worse than showing a card to a massive empty space 🤔--> I haven't exactly mastered this yet
 

alexv

Well-Known Member
#13
I can't remember if it was a level 5 or one of the Premier League officials who told me, but apparently it can be good practice (not in all situations) to get the card out early so they know what's coming and the colour is not a surprise

Does anyone know where other skins can be found other than Refsworld UK where they're sold out, as I like how they're reusable and I'm using masking tape which looks quite messy on my cards. Of course I still use my notebook too, but I like writing on the cards as it's less fiddly for me
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#15
I'm not in England, so feel free to beat me up for this--but is that procedure archaic? With modern records and protocols, I would think recording the number in the heat of the moment is adequate--why ask for a name? And while I was explain a card, as needed, the reality is that for the overwhelming majority of cards, the reason for the card is obvious--why initiate a conversation with the player who may be easily irritable, either because he disagrees or is mad at himself. As someone noted above, these procedures go out the window at higher level, so why insist on them at lower levels?
Because there have been so, so many mistakes made where the wrong player is charged and suspended because referees are blindly relying on the fact that the team sheets are correct. Obviously at Football League and even more so Premier League the referees don't need to ask names as the players are well known (not to mention have their name written on their back ..!). But at lower levels that isn't the case and mistakes do happen with team sheets.
 
#16
Because there have been so, so many mistakes made where the wrong player is charged and suspended because referees are blindly relying on the fact that the team sheets are correct. Obviously at Football League and even more so Premier League the referees don't need to ask names as the players are well known (not to mention have their name written on their back ..!). But at lower levels that isn't the case and mistakes do happen with team sheets.
Some of the lesser Sunday League teams in my area are genuinely surprised when I ask them for their team sheets. When I do get them they are half baked to say the least, I just don't trust them enough at the lower leagie to rely on them. I follow the procedure because I am supposed to (apart from if I need to do a quick card to dispel an edgey situation) but also because there's been countless times when the name I've been given isn't on the team sheet or doesn't correspond to the number. Or even the occasions when a player has been called his name by his team mates all game and when I card him he gives me a different name lol.
 
#17
I can't remember if it was a level 5 or one of the Premier League officials who told me, but apparently it can be good practice (not in all situations) to get the card out early so they know what's coming and the colour is not a surprise
I used to think this, but I’ve found that the more experienced I’ve become, the more I find the procedure helps me with match control. Isolate the player, explain why he’s being cautioned/dismissed. If you manage to slow things down and explain it clearly but concisely, they know exactly why that decision has been reached. To other players watching on too, it is clear that you have gone through a reasoned thought process to get to that decision. I’ve found that the procedure helps me just to calm things down a bit more than flashing a card (as cool as it feels) does, aiding your match control in the long run
 

alexv

Well-Known Member
#18
I used to think this, but I’ve found that the more experienced I’ve become, the more I find the procedure helps me with match control. Isolate the player, explain why he’s being cautioned/dismissed. If you manage to slow things down and explain it clearly but concisely, they know exactly why that decision has been reached. To other players watching on too, it is clear that you have gone through a reasoned thought process to get to that decision. I’ve found that the procedure helps me just to calm things down a bit more than flashing a card (as cool as it feels) does, aiding your match control in the long run
Yeah that’s true. I think it works for certain situations. In my u15 game on Saturday I gave a yellow for a push when it probably could’ve been DOGSO but I wasn’t sure how close the covering defenders were and should’ve had the yellow in my hand as soon as I made up my mind to stop the opposition for asking for a red. Would’ve been easier with NARs but just had club assistants so couldn’t double check
 
#19
I used to think this, but I’ve found that the more experienced I’ve become, the more I find the procedure helps me with match control. Isolate the player, explain why he’s being cautioned/dismissed. If you manage to slow things down and explain it clearly but concisely, they know exactly why that decision has been reached. To other players watching on too, it is clear that you have gone through a reasoned thought process to get to that decision. I’ve found that the procedure helps me just to calm things down a bit more than flashing a card (as cool as it feels) does, aiding your match control in the long run
It's all situational. I'm not bound by the English procedures and have reliable numbers so I don't have to ask for names. So I get to pick how to manage based on situation. For many cards--the self explanatory ones--I simply show the card and write down the number. But sometimes the best way to calm things down is to have the conversation first, and then show the card. Sometimes, where retaliation is a risk, it is worth getting the card out while running toward the players so that the victim knows he's being protected (even if he is too dense to realize that from the tone of the whistle). Choosing the best process--quickly--for each card is, in my mind, an important part of reading the game and the players involved.
 
#20
Yeah that’s true. I think it works for certain situations. In my u15 game on Saturday I gave a yellow for a push when it probably could’ve been DOGSO but I wasn’t sure how close the covering defenders were and should’ve had the yellow in my hand as soon as I made up my mind to stop the opposition for asking for a red. Would’ve been easier with NARs but just had club assistants so couldn’t double check
Stand to be corrected (going off memory), but the only card we're allowed to 'flash' at grass roots is red; and that's to prevent immanent mayhem following VC or SFP
 
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