A&H

Classic Controversy

WilliamD

WilliamD

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
Cup QF - Couple of incidents today of the nature I think we all dread (ie players not really understand the LoTG. Opening myself up for "feedback" here.

1) two different incidents with the keeper handing the ball after a deliberate pass by a team-mate...one for each team.

A) First one is against Green and it came about when Green went in for a tackle on Orange but stayed on his feet, he got the ball and in my view could of done a lot with the ball but he went home with it, keeper picked it up and I blew IDFK - cue Green going nuts that it can't be a "back pass" from a tackle....sigh. I'm quite confident about this one but wondering views on "deliberate" during a tackle.

B) this one I might of got wrong. Orange goes home with the ball from midfield but makes a mess of it and it is going left and out of the box. Such a mess that Green manages to chase it down but the keeper makes green miss and dribbles it back into the box and picks it up...........I didn't blow. In my brain it was sort of a next phase of play thing given the keeper took a few touches....but I'm not confident. Thoughts?

2) Pentalty Kick for Green - bounces off the cross bar and up - cue the normal ping pong off heads....keeper (very close to the goal line punches it and knocks the ball into an Orange players face neck but the orange player had his hands up around high chest level (as you do when everyone is jumping in the box)...anyway as you've guessed off the Orange players hands/face/neck and into the net. Green goes nuts that "you can't score with your hands"...sigh...I don't think it was deliberate not sure Orange could of done anything... but open to feedback
 
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WilliamD said:
Cup QF - Couple of incidents today of the nature I think we all dread (ie players not really understand the LoTG. Opening myself up for "feedback" here.

1) two different incidents with the keeper handing the ball after a deliberate pass by a team-mate...one for each team.

A) First one is against Green and it came about when Green went in for a tackle on Orange but stayed on his feet, he got the ball and in my view could of done a lot with the ball but he went home with it, keeper picked it up and I blew IDFK - cue Green going nuts that it can't be a "back pass" from a tackle....sigh. I'm quite confident about this one but wondering views on "deliberate" during a tackle.

B) this one I might of got wrong. Orange goes home with the ball from midfield but makes a mess of it and it is going left and out of the box. Such a mess that Green manages to chase it down but the keeper makes green miss and dribbles it back into the box and picks it up...........I didn't blow. In my brain it was sort of a next phase of play thing given the keeper took a few touches....but I'm not confident. Thoughts?

2) Pentalty Kick for Green - bounces off the cross bar and up - cue the normal ping pong off heads....keeper (very close to the goal line punches it and knocks the ball into an Orange players face neck but the orange player had his hands up around high chest level (as you do when everyone is jumping in the box)...anyway as you've guessed off the Orange players hands/face/neck and into the net. Green goes nuts that "you can't score with your hands"...sigh...I don't think it was deliberate not sure Orange could of done anything... but open to feedback
Click to expand...

1a) I think you had to be there judge. If it was a deliberate kick to the keeper then, tackle or not, its a passback. Only you know if it was deliberate. Sounds like you feel it was and therefore I would have to assume you were correct.

1b) same as above. If it was deliberately kicked to the keeper then it's a passback. Again you know the answer here. The way its written, I think, and I think you do to, that you've missed one. We all make mistakes - its a development point and Im sure you wont do it again.

2) again we are talking about whether it was deliberate or not. Sounds to me like you've got it right - you didnt think it was deliberate. In fact you dont believe he could have done anything at all and therefore again Id have to assume correct. Again you probably had to be there but here are your handling the ball considerations:
Handling the ball
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the
ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an
infringement
• touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)
is an infringement
• hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an
infringement
 
1A - what do you mean 'went home with it'? From a tackle, you're going to give more benefit of the doubt to the defender. But an offence could certainly still happen if you think it's clear - defender reaches in and pokes it towards the keeper. Was it intended for the keeper or just clearing it away? YHTBT

1B - you already know this one :)

2 - so you allowed the goal? If so it sounds like a good decision. There's no law stating you can't score from accidental handling. Player has arms tucked into body and an opponent strikes the ball into the arm from close range (so no time to reach) - sounds like a clear accidental handling. The outcome is 100% irrelevant.
 
1a - sorry went home with it = back to keeper. I felt he had a few options other than passing back to keeper so I blew for it. Feel good about this one in the end. Players were in shock though as it was "from a tackle".

2 - yes I awarded the goal. This one comes down to players and pundits having a view that you can't score with your hand (even if not deliberate) - was that ever the case???
 
WilliamD said:
This one comes down to players and pundits having a view that you can't score with your hand (even if not deliberate) - was that ever the case???
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell, yes it was. Up until 1974, the law said that a goal could not be scored if the ball had been "thrown, carried or propelled by hand or arm, by a player of the attacking side, except in the case of a goalkeeper, who is within his own penalty area." The provision that this should only be the case if the handling was deliberate, was introduced in that year with the addition of the word "intentionally" before "thrown".
 
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