A&H

Junior/Youth Coach Takes Players off Pitch due to health and safety

Viking

Well-Known Member
I am incensed. In an u11 game, after at least 8 off the ball stampings not seen by the ref, 2 elbows, crying children, foul and abusive language/aggression aimed at a club assistant referee (who is also a qualified referee - me) and his own players by the away coach, and several horrendous challenges and late tackles - not unlike the Millwall sending off today, the home coach takes his team off the pitch mid way through the second half and the game is effectively abandoned. He wished he would have done it an half time.

I sit here 33 hours later, absolutely incensed that this coach uses OFFINABUS, screams into the faces of other coaches, who I suspect told his players to target several players, including my son who was stamped on off the ball 5 times, who is then cheered by parents and his players alike at the end in the centre circle as some sort of celebration. Horrendous tackles included raking down the back of legs and several pushes to the floor followed by stamps. Having spoken the ref after the game, he had never shown a yellow card in the 4 months of refereeing and thought it harsh to book u11s. He did have great courage in walking over to the coach after a tirade of foul and abusive language was aimed at me for having the audacity to raise my flag for offside. But fundamentally he had no control of the game and just allowed constant horrendous challenges to continue without words or caution. But he will learn. Of course, this sort of game should not be happening at u11 level.

So what to do now. In 27 years of on and off officiating, the last two at this level because of my son, I have never seen such bile and I never want to see this coach anywhere near coaching children ever again. The ref has submitted a report to the local FA stating he was about to abandon the match due to health and safety of players and states the OFFINABUS of the coach. I've written a full report of the situation to the local FA and local RA. I have also sent this report to the club's safeguarding officer who has forwarded it and several other parent's reports to the local FA. The coach has submitted a report to the league.

Is there anything else that I can do/should do re getting this coach removed? Why the hell does this sort of thing go on at u11 level?

Re the ref, I had spoken to the ref before the start, at half time and at the end but didn't interfere at other times during the game, despite seeing missed fouls etc. I've reffed this coach before and I'm very strong from the start of play on how they should act and things were fine. He played on the weakness of this ref and therefore I'm wondering if I should have got involved at any point during play, especially as he shouted 'He's a phucking cheat ref' at me in the second half.

Any thoughts anyone?
 
The Referee Store
Having spoken the ref after the game, he had never shown a yellow card in the 4 months of refereeing and thought it harsh to book u11s.


No cautions for over four months sounds like someone who is beyond lenient... It just sounds absurd to me. However, I'm not sharing your optimism that he will learn and change his style as this seems like a deeply ingrained view/style that would need to be hammered out by assessors and mentoring, and I'm not convinced he's going that route?
 
@Viking - Sounds horrible. Informing the Safeguarding officer of the FA and the League about the coach is the minimum requirement from you. From your post, you have informed the FA, but the league (as a U11) will have its own safeguarding officer. Your report about the coach should be sent confidentially to that officer, not to the League Sec in general - as this could become a duty of care!

How old was the referee? Was he too young to stand up to the coach?

Once you have done these, there is nothing more to be done. The due processes of the FA and the League will occur and any punishments will happen.
 
Thanks for your thoughts and advice all. I've now sent to the safeguarding officers of the local FA and the League. It had already gone to the league sec. I've also sent a copy to the safeguarding officer of the different FA that the offending club is registered with. It does sound as if the matter is then not the problem of the local FA. Whilst I understand that situation re sanctioning the offending coach and club, I do hope that the FA (and the RA) will be getting in touch with the league to see why this sort of behaviour happens from their clubs. I would expect a hearing to take place against the coach who removed his players from the pitch. I will not let this be swept under the carpet.

The ref was probably approx 16. He did stand up to the coach in the first half and even raised with me the possibility of removing him from the ground at half time. Unfortunately he ended up letting him carry on OFFINABUS in the second half because he was unsure of procedure.
 
The ref was probably approx 16. He did stand up to the coach in the first half and even raised with me the possibility of removing him from the ground at half time. Unfortunately he ended up letting him carry on OFFINABUS in the second half because he was unsure of procedure.

Experience (both refereeing and life) is how we become good referees. A teenager doesn't have the life experience with managing adults, and he had limited refereeing experience. Dealing with over-the-top adults is probably the hardest things for teenage refs, especially when they are solo. (I think cards to coaches will help those teen refs a lot, as it is a tool that is easier than explaining to an adult that the adult is acting like a child.)

IMHO, when youth are refereeing, unless they have a NAR who is an adult, there should be a responsible adult thee to assist if needed. That works where I am, but may not be realistic everywhere.
 
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This is awful but sadly a situation thats happening more and more.

I feel for the young ref as hes only learning his trade but if he was close to abandoning the game for safety reasons why has he not issued a single card before it got to that stage (this is what FA will bring up)
 
Nearly two weeks on, and I know that the referee submitted a report to the FAs, league etc specifically stating OFFINABUS of the coach and the fact that the ref would have abandoned the game had the other coach not taken his team off the pitch and forfeited the game (due to the types of challenges going in and constant swearing by the coach).

This officially appointed referee has stated these actions and yet the league are 'still looking into it' as of last Saturday. I know this coach managed his team last Saturday. I read with interest on another thread of the league who banned a player within 12 hours of an action. It seems appropriate to me to ban this coach immediately and to warn his team of foul play (and to get some experienced refs/mentors for young refs to oversee the games). None of these things appear to have happened - at least I don't know if there was a mentor last week.

Two questions. What's the usual length of time between say sending off/report and ban in your leagues? I've apparently had a made up complaint put in against me - what is the timeframe of me receiving details of this complaint?
 
Nearly two weeks on, and I know that the referee submitted a report to the FAs, league etc specifically stating OFFINABUS of the coach and the fact that the ref would have abandoned the game had the other coach not taken his team off the pitch and forfeited the game (due to the types of challenges going in and constant swearing by the coach).

This officially appointed referee has stated these actions and yet the league are 'still looking into it' as of last Saturday. I know this coach managed his team last Saturday. I read with interest on another thread of the league who banned a player within 12 hours of an action. It seems appropriate to me to ban this coach immediately and to warn his team of foul play (and to get some experienced refs/mentors for young refs to oversee the games). None of these things appear to have happened - at least I don't know if there was a mentor last week.

Two questions. What's the usual length of time between say sending off/report and ban in your leagues? I've apparently had a made up complaint put in against me - what is the timeframe of me receiving details of this complaint?



Would your own local association not be the best ones to ask, i.e. your referee sec, thats what they are there for
 
Would your own local association not be the best ones to ask, i.e. your referee sec, thats what they are there for
I'm not sure that is what he's there for. His view is to put it all through the local FA. That wasn't part of my remit when I was ra sec 25 years ago.
 
I'm not sure that is what he's there for. His view is to put it all through the local FA. That wasn't part of my remit when I was ra sec 25 years ago.


Ok certainly here our ref sec is our point of contact, Of course it may be different elsewhere.
 
The sad fact is that we all (rightly or wrongly) operate as referees under the basic assumption that all the players and staff involved in the match are actually there doing it for enjoyment and the love of the sport. The LOTG are there to provide a framework for all involved to make it "fair" - not to act as a restraint measure for people who want to behave like thugs and kick and abuse/assault each other.
If people want to behave like that on a football pitch (adults or youngsters) then how the hell can the FA or in fact anybody expect a youngster to deal with it? The referee, irrespective of age is there to uphold the LOTG not to manage animalistic human behaviour.
I've never had to abandon a match yet but the minute I find myself involved in an event that has become something other than a game of competitive football as it's intended in it's spirit so to speak - I'm outta there. :cool:
 
Sadly I agree @Viking reports seem to just get buried by the local fa. I abandoned a game in October due to SEVERE racism and the ref sec said after the game he will wait the verdict of fa before allowing a team to have the 3 points ... he is still waiting for them to do ANYTHING. The team subjected to this abuse also gave a report to the fa and Kick it out but alas nothing
 
I assume bad publicity isn't something the FA wants. The Peterborough incident mentioned on another thread recently was wrong for various reasons but did highlight the dissent issue. The Jersey refs striking will have an impact. I wonder if a local journalist could stir the pot a little.

Racism in the street is dealt with within 6 months so why isn't a body who has an official report able to do something sooner. They're not fit for purpose.
 
As an update to the original situation, at least the league acted, albeit softly to start with. £50 and warning for the original disgraceful behaviour - this is far too light imho. However, the abusive coach then contacted the other coach after his cross hearing was rejected and suggested one rule for one, along with a few choice words. These subsequent actions reported to the league with the result of a £100 and 3 match ban for the abusive coach. Much more apt and maybe the coach will mend his ways. No word from the FA yet though...………………
 
At least something has been done, problem is no teams will in the league will know about the ban so i bet he attends minimum one game probably all three.
 
lets not crucify a young ref here. If he is under 16 and only doing it 4 months this will include a lot of the summer as he has only just qualified. No cards in 4 months. Summer tournaments for younger age groups rarely happen and if he is doing U11s regulary there is not often cautions are needed. This ref will get more out of this game than the normal time keeping and goal recording you normally do at this level. It is a shame that kids who are meant to be having fun are being coached like this. The appointment secretary should appoint an experienced ref to this team but the manager is a coward who would not try it if a grown up ref rocks up, but at that age group you are going to get the newly qualified young refs. Send in the undercover FA observer with out coat and see what he is like when a younger newer ref is appointed. As some one who has an average card count the youngest age group I have carded has been a red at U13s, cautions are issued at younger levels but they are rare and it could be the coach is playing on this. This coach should not be let near any kids team in my opinion.
 
I can't see that anyone has crucified a young ref here. He is someone who will absolutely have learnt from this game and I'm pleased to see he is still reffing this season. This game originally happened 6 months ago so the ref had had 4 months of pretty much non-stop reffing. I will try and see if I can catch up with him if I'm free on a Saturday morning at some point, to ensure he's alright. I know the CDO has been in touch with him.

It is interesting to read back on the ref's comment about not wanting to card at u11 level. I think it unfair on the opposition if you don't and if fact on the player, as they won't learn. In the 5 x u12 games I've done this season, I've YC for SPA (deliberate trip and taking out) and YC sin bin for dissent. It was however for the same team but in different games. I did the same for 2 x players in an older age group at the same club at the back end of last season, so perhaps it's something that's just not coached well enough at the club concerned.
 
I never said I wouldnt caution at under 11 but I haven't. I rarely do those younger age groups, but I have no issues at cautioning in youth football, and will regulary turn off to grounds and hear the sit here keep your mouths shut you know what he is like, despite in my first observation I was told my tolerance level to dissent is too high! My comment about crucifying the ref was related to the never carded in 4 months. It is very easy to sit here and criticise that fact but if you are new to reffing you tend to be a bit more cautious with cards until you become more confident, v will hand I still say that if you are doing younger age groups you will have a much lower card count that someone who does the senior youth sides. There is a big discussion on what is the right age to caution and you seem to have nailed the problem on the head. If you don't caution they think they can get away with it and when I caution at the older age group I get told you can't book me for that or get coaches and parents getting angry because I implement the laws of the game.I know one ref who has not issued a red in 6 years all of his reffing career and he does senior youth.
 
The 4 month point was just an observation rather than a criticism. The not wanting to card point was raised against the junior ref in the OP. One recent u12 game had only one foul in an hour but that's possibly due to the fact both teams know me (and I probably missed things). My son's coach and team is all about learning - and winning - but with an emphasis on learning and implementing what was learnt. One player who scored a few goals the other week was correctly 'spoken to' by the coach for not passing as other opportunities were wasted. I love the learning aspect and really feel that a card used in an appropriate manner will assist the player in learning what not to do.

I'm getting back to OA football in November and will enjoy managing games in the correct manner.
 
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