A&H

Cup Game PKs Positioning

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boulderdomb

Active Member
Hi All,

I have a cup game this weekend with the possibility of it going to PKs should a draw occur - I have referee'd both teams before and each time it's ended a draw unfortunately.

My question is should the game go to PKs in the event of a draw, where do I ask both teams to stand? Should they be at the half way line? How do I ensure that no infringements to lotg are made while I'm watching the PK e.g violent conduct or offensive language?

Another question I have is what is the best way to ensure that the same player doesn't take more than one kick if this is even a law? I couldn't see it in the lotg although I have history of being in the completely wrong section..
 
The Referee Store
Make sure only players at the end of the game are on halfway line, that means no managers or substitutes.

I suppose you could ask the manager the shirt numbers of the players taking the kicks before it starts,

If someone is going to swap shirts etc which i doubt there isn't a lot you can do about it, dont get too stressed over a shoot out mate, its very basic practice.
 
boulderdomb said:
Hi All,

I have a cup game this weekend with the possibility of it going to PKs should a draw occur - I have referee'd both teams before and each time it's ended a draw unfortunately.

My question is should the game go to PKs in the event of a draw, where do I ask both teams to stand? Should they be at the half way line? How do I ensure that no infringements to lotg are made while I'm watching the PK e.g violent conduct or offensive language?

Another question I have is what is the best way to ensure that the same player doesn't take more than one kick if this is even a law? I couldn't see it in the lotg although I have history of being in the completely wrong section..
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Page 89 of the good book gives you an insight.

Practically, you will be in and around the pen area yourself so its difficult to also be at the centre circle to monitor language but if you have the teams a distant apart, vc should not be a concern

For recording the kicks, ask player to turn to you on approach to the kick, note his number and then do your goal/no goal preferred way of recording and there you go!

E.g. blue 3 and next to it, a tick if he scores
 
spuddy1878 said:
Make sure only players at the end of the game are on halfway line, that means no managers or substitutes.

I suppose you could ask the manager the shirt numbers of the players taking the kicks before it starts,

If someone is going to swap shirts etc which i doubt there isn't a lot you can do about it, dont get too stressed over a shoot out mate, its very basic practice.
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No no no no no, you do not require the kickers numbers before starting the procedure
You used to. But, not now,
 
I know you dont have to get them, the OP was asking how you can you make sure the same player doesn't take a kick twice.
 
spuddy1878 said:
I know you dont have to get them, the OP was asking how you can you make sure the same player doesn't take a kick twice.
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Not only do you not have to get them, the coach is not obligated to tell you!
So keep to the correct procedure and dont ask!
Imagine your credibilty when you ask for the numbers and the coach says, no!
 
spuddy1878 said:
Make sure only players at the end of the game are on halfway line, that means no managers or substitutes.

I suppose you could ask the manager the shirt numbers of the players taking the kicks before it starts,

If someone is going to swap shirts etc which i doubt there isn't a lot you can do about it, dont get too stressed over a shoot out mate, its very basic practice.
Click to expand...

and one of the basics is do NOT ask for number/name/order of penalty takers - its not required in law. Teams can decide who takes the pens as they go along. Just make a note of shirt numbers as they step up. IF one team finishes the game with less players than other - get the team with most players to nominate player(s) who will not take pen(s) - they have to stay off the pitch.
 
spuddy1878 said:
I know you dont have to get them, the OP was asking how you can you make sure the same player doesn't take a kick twice.
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This isn't hard. You write down numbers as they take kicks. Personally, I write down the number of the kicker before each kick. I use a separate column for each team. If it scores, I circle it. If it doesn't, I put a line through it so I can still read the number. With each kicker, I make sure the number doesn't match one above.

As noted above, referees do not have the authority to require a list of who will kick before the kicks start. And as also noted above, the LOTG have spelled out the process quite well since the big re-write a couple of years ago.
 
The most important thing is making sure that only the 22 that finish the game take part in the penalty kicks. This is especially important if it is repeated subs and you are on your own, be proactive and ask the coaches at the start of extra time (or the second half if straight to penalties) to make sure players stay on the pitch at the end and no one else comes on. If you have neutral ARs ask them to manage this.

Many games have had to be replayed because a player who wasn't on the pitch when the full time whistle blew took a penalty, and repeated subs have made it a whole lot more common.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Not only do you not have to get them, the coach is not obligated to tell you!
So keep to the correct procedure and dont ask!
Imagine your credibilty when you ask for the numbers and the coach says, no!
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I ran the line for a referee last season who asked for numbers before hand. They missed their first pen then changed the order. Completely threw the referee off who had written it down on his pad
 
All good points on managing the taking of them. But the most important is to stand on the goal line, as your only decision is whether the ball crosses the line. Too many young referees stand in their normal penalty watching position, not the credible viewing position.
 
lincs22 said:
All good points on managing the taking of them. But the most important is to stand on the goal line, as your only decision is whether the ball crosses the line. Too many young referees stand in their normal penalty watching position, not the credible viewing position.
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. . . and the GK leaving the line too early (well, in theory you also have violations by the kicker, but those are extraordinarily rare). (Of course, if you have neutral ARs, you don't need to move to the goal line. I admire y'all over there who do so many games solo. I don't know that I'd be as into doing it if I had to work solo that much--to me a large part of the fun is working with the others on the referee team.)
 
spuddy1878 said:
Question

In say u11 game goes to penalties, do you still only allow players in the centre circle ?
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Would they ever go to penalties? I’m not sure they can play competitive fixtures as such at that age
 
spuddy1878 said:
Question

In say u11 game goes to penalties, do you still only allow players in the centre circle ?
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U13 girls is 7 a side where I am and we do have a cup where a winner is needed, I might, in the interests of preparing them for what they will face in the future, try to keep to the procedure as best as possible but I wont be too fussed
Boys here is U13 11 a side and yes I would make an effort to keep things as proper as possible but am not going to be too officious
 
QuaverRef said:
Would they ever go to penalties? I’m not sure they can play competitive fixtures as such at that age
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I think that is a rules of competition issue--and I don't know a lot about how local youth leagues work on your side of the pond. On my side, for younger games, it's not uncommon for rules to permit the coach and subs to join the team on the field in KFTM--ideally with the coach and subs outside the circle and the active players inside. (This makes it easier for coaches to manage the seemingly unavoidable tears that come about.) But then, we also tend to have neutral ARs for these games, which makes it a lot easier to manage those extra bodies at midfield.
 
Too many important things. If you don't finish with 22 players make sure equal number of players from each team participate (and continue to do so). It's all in LAW 10.3 (page 91 of 2018/19 pdf). make sure you read it.

Only stand on the goal line if you don't have assistants. If you do, ask them to do ball in/out and you stand as per this pic and watch for goal keeper encroachments. The pic also says where everyone else stands.

1547511344415.png


As for recording, if you have ARs make sure you tell them to record too. Take the number of every kicker as they set up and record it in a blank piece of paper (back of your score card) like this. Before you write it, have a look and make sure they haven't taken a kick for that round before.

1547522480488.png

(EDIT: I realised I always put the team that kicks 1st in the 1st column :) )
 
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So, here's a question. We all know it's important that kickers only come from the 11 on the pitch, how do we all manage/record that when working solo? The one time I had this possibility impending, I took the time to remind the two coaches at HT in extra time - and then it didn't come up. Should/can we take all 22 numbers as the match ends?
 
GraemeS said:
So, here's a question. We all know it's important that kickers only come from the 11 on the pitch, how do we all manage/record that when working solo? The one time I had this possibility impending, I took the time to remind the two coaches at HT in extra time - and then it didn't come up. Should/can we take all 22 numbers as the match ends?
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If you have noted the subs correctly, rolling or not, your book/match card will tell you who can take a kick.

Yes with rolling subs it can mean a slightly unitdy notebook at the end but thats down to each individual to control. Its your record of the match, its for you to keep track.

If am doing a kids cup tie, rolling subs, i actually use a match card just for the subs, as opposed to the traditional everything on one card method.

Although you will prob rather hear the same advice from someone else.
 
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No way can you keep track on rolling subs in kids football not where i referee.
At a guess on Sunday in one game i would say one team alone made 20 different changes.
 
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