A&H

Dementia in ex-footballers

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The sample was taken from men who played professional football in Scotland between 1900 and 1976.

Up until the 60s, many footballers were still heading footballs that weighed around the same as a medicine ball :D when wet and had a huge lace-up section in it.
In truth, it's just scaremongering. They've taken a 76 year period when only about 16 years of it is pertinent or relevant to the modern game. :rolleyes: ;)
 
The balls we played with weren't the medicine ball type but were certainly heavier to what i see today. Certainly remember catching one on the sweet spot on my forehead in the Sheffield Works Premier on Bawtry Road, I was 16 playing in an adult team, scored 2 that day and it was probably the only time I caught one perfect. I do remember your head ringing when one came out of the sky and you sent it back with interest which was more the norm!!!
 
The balls we played with weren't the medicine ball type but were certainly heavier to what i see today. Certainly remember catching one on the sweet spot on my forehead in the Sheffield Works Premier on Bawtry Road, I was 16 playing in an adult team, scored 2 that day and it was probably the only time I caught one perfect. I do remember your head ringing when one came out of the sky and you sent it back with interest which was more the norm!!!
Always wondered why thee is not the full ticket!
 
Motor neurone is an odd one,

I don’t doubt the four-fold increase in cases amongst footballers... but...

I lost my dad to MND so read up and spoke to people. AFAIK no one has been able to ”prove” any cause. So, we are left with ”opinions” from knowledgable people. The helpers and association people I spoke to (wonderful people!) had two anecdotal - unproven - theories: electrocution (my dad scored here from nearly blowing himself up with a guitar amp a 16!) and, get this, living/working close/near to prepared parkland i.e. Golf courses, groundstaff etc.

...sorry it took so long to get there, but based on my tiny insight the MND numbers could be from just being at the training ground!
 
There is also a question of when any harm occurred--youth? Adult? In the US, lawsuits and a conclusion that young, less developed brains are more at risk from the lower-than concussion repeated head contact has resulted in a heading ban for those 10 and younger in soccer. (I don't do those games often, but when I do, I often have a double take, as my first thought is "nice play kid!" followed by "Oh wait, you can't do that--tweet.")

Watching the levels just after that is interesting--my take is that the players at, say, 14s that have played with no heading when they were younger are more skilled at playing the ball with their body and controlling a ball coming down from a high arc with their feet/legs. But definitely less skilled at heading the ball.
 
Motor neurone is an odd one,

I don’t doubt the four-fold increase in cases amongst footballers... but...

I lost my dad to MND so read up and spoke to people. AFAIK no one has been able to ”prove” any cause. So, we are left with ”opinions” from knowledgable people. The helpers and association people I spoke to (wonderful people!) had two anecdotal - unproven - theories: electrocution (my dad scored here from nearly blowing himself up with a guitar amp a 16!) and, get this, living/working close/near to prepared parkland i.e. Golf courses, groundstaff etc.

...sorry it took so long to get there, but based on my tiny insight the MND numbers could be from just being at the training ground!

Agree, my gran succumbed to MND and she'd never headed a ball in her life and to the best of our knowledge hadn't suffered any kind of head trauma. The experts at the time suggested it may have been due to a change in lifestyle, she was forced to retire at 60 even though she didn't want to, and went from a very active person at 60 to not even able to eat unaided less than 12 months later. They suggested that that rapid change in lifestyle badly affected her brain function.

But at the end of the day no ones knows. Football is different now though, the balls are so light I'm struggling to believe any real damage can be done by heading it.
 
The problem with stats and studies that produce them is that you can present them in different ways to leave whatever impression you want to.

If I say it's a known fact that 40% of sick leaves happen on Fridays Or Mondays, most think it's to get a long weekend instead of thinking it's average for working days.

This is the subtitle I read from another article
"Professional footballers are more than three times likely to die of dementia than those of the general public, a much anticipated study says."

And this is the what I negate it with
"Professional footballers are five times less likely to die of lifestyle deseases than those of the general public, a much less anticipated study (mine) says."
 
Listening to the radio today, it appears that they're comparing the brains of effected footballers who have no deceased to illnesses such as those previously mentioned, to a sample of those from the general public. The sample size is in the 1000s, and many current PFA members have agreed to have their brains handed over for further study after death. Whether rates of "4 or 5" times more likely to suffer from MND or Dementia if you've been a footballer from the 60s-80s (presumably that's the rough sample period, as younger ex players are likely to still be alive) are conclusive evidence is up for debate, but it certainly warrants further research and preventative actions now.
 
I started playing in the early 90s, and therefore missed the old leather ball generation. But even in the semi professional game, medicine balls were used to strengthen neck muscles! This was also talked about on Talksport today. The game has changed now. Better pitches which promote possession football rather than long ball, lighter balls which don't absorb water, stricter laws and acceptance of 'contact' in the game. Perhaps these measures may already be negating the issue of dementia and MND in footballers. Only further research will tell us.
 
I fear we're sliding down the Nanny Slope towards headers being outlawed along with HB. It will apply to young age-groups first and gradually creep into adult football. By which time boxing will be a distant memory
 
I fear we're sliding down the Nanny Slope towards headers being outlawed along with HB. It will apply to young age-groups first and gradually creep into adult football. By which time boxing will be a distant memory

Heading has already been banned at youth level in some American states.
 
Heading has already been banned at youth level in some American states.

No, it's a national ban for those 10 and under in any USSF sanctioned organizations. (Exact implementation has varied a little bit, as 10 year olds can be playing with older players.) Deliberately heading the ball is a safety violation resulting in an IFK (but cannot result in misconduct).

The ban followed a lawsuit that included USSF and other organizations. The concern was that the younger brain is less stable within the skull and more susceptible to brain injury--whether full concussion or harm from repeated sub-concussion hits.

Not exactly on point, but the last stats I saw showed that for US high schools, the second highest concussion rate was for girl's soccer--and it was close to American football, which was first.
 
No, it's a national ban for those 10 and under in any USSF sanctioned organizations. (Exact implementation has varied a little bit, as 10 year olds can be playing with older players.) Deliberately heading the ball is a safety violation resulting in an IFK (but cannot result in misconduct).

The ban followed a lawsuit that included USSF and other organizations. The concern was that the younger brain is less stable within the skull and more susceptible to brain injury--whether full concussion or harm from repeated sub-concussion hits.

Not exactly on point, but the last stats I saw showed that for US high schools, the second highest concussion rate was for girl's soccer--and it was close to American football, which was first.

Interesting. On the radio this morning it was categorically stated that heading had been banned at youth level in some states. Is that in addition or is it just a fabrication?
 
Wait, what? The media got something wrong?!? I suppose it's possible that there are states that have imposed the restriction on older youth as well, but I haven't heard of it. (I probably would have, but its possible I missed it.) The USSF ban is about 4 years old.
 
On Radio 4 this morning they were talking about how any head impact (whether with a new ball or not) can cause damage. Personally I can see headers being outlawed in youth from progressively older age ranges up until perhaps 16+ as we learn more about this.

I've seen many 'bad' headers in my time (done a few as well :) ) and the sport will have to start asking itself are the risks starting to outweigh the benefits.

Don't get me wrong - outlawing headers in the game would significantly lessen the sport - but realistically the chances of little Timmy making it as a Pro are tiny so let's at least make sure his involvement in the game doesn't do lasting damage.
 
On Radio 4 this morning they were talking about how any head impact (whether with a new ball or not) can cause damage. Personally I can see headers being outlawed in youth from progressively older age ranges up until perhaps 16+ as we learn more about this.

I've seen many 'bad' headers in my time (done a few as well :) ) and the sport will have to start asking itself are the risks starting to outweigh the benefits.

Don't get me wrong - outlawing headers in the game would significantly lessen the sport - but realistically the chances of little Timmy making it as a Pro are tiny so let's at least make sure his involvement in the game doesn't do lasting damage.
Strange world we live in. One in which risk is hyped and misunderstood. Life and risk are interchangeable. The perils of football are eclipsed by Fortnite addiction and childhood obesity
 
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