A&H

Did I get this wrong?

snap_RL

snap_RL

New Member
I've been mulling this over for the weekend and not sure whether I made a mistake in Law or made a decent judgement call here...

Two players go in for a 50/50, no fouls committed, both players end up on the ground, ball is still in play somewhere in the midfield. I keep any eye on the two players lying on the ground and Red #8 kicks out at Blue #6 and makes contact. It's really gentle. No force at all all, but there is contact. It's just petulance and frustration.

I blow the whistle and give a YC for Red #8.

Since then I think this probably should have been a red card for VC, but I think as it was so gentle, at the time I thought it merited a lesser sanction. I had decent control of the game before this (and after to be fair), but I now think I got this wrong and it should have been a red irrespective of the force of the kick.

What do you think?
 
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snap_RL said:
I've been mulling this over for the weekend and not sure whether I made a mistake in Law or made a decent judgement call here...

Two players go in for a 50/50, no fouls committed, both players end up on the ground, ball is still in play somewhere in the midfield. I keep any eye on the two players lying on the ground and Red #8 kicks out at Blue #6 and makes contact. It's really gentle. No force at all all, but there is contact. It's just petulance and frustration.

I blow the whistle and give a YC for Red #8.

Since then I think this probably should have been a red card for VC, but I think as it was so gentle, at the time I thought it merited a lesser sanction. I had decent control of the game before this (and after to be fair), but I now think I got this wrong and it should have been a red irrespective of the force of the kick.

What do you think?
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Was it brutality, or, petulance.

in ye olde times, striking or attempting to strike was a red, today, we look for brutality.

it sounds like a yellow
 
i guess you had to be there...

the law regarding violent conduct states: "...a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality..."

i think you could quite easily conclude that a 'gentle' kick doesnt quite fit the VC description, but you would have to see it to really know if you were right or wrong!
 
From your description (and that is the important bit) it didn't have the force for VC.
I would say a yellow would suffice.

There is a school of thought that any contact here is excessive so a red card would ensue but I don't subscribe to that...
 
Follow-up question.

So, I logged it as C1 (USB) and then wondered what sub-code I should be using. I went for AAA.
 
JamesL said:
There is a school of thought that any contact here is excessive so a red card would ensue but I don't subscribe to that...
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I've heard this argument before - seeing as there is a specific caveat in the Laws that deliberately striking someone in the head/face is VC unless the force is negligible, to me it stands to reason that in any other scenario there is clearly room for the amount of force to be more than negligible, yet not rising to excessive.
 
It is also going to depend on the kick.

If he's taking a silly soft swipe and a miss, then fair enough maybe.

If he's taking a swipe/stab using his studs, then it's a whole different matter IMO.
 
As described above, I'd place it in the same category as "handbags" where players square up to each other and indulge in a bit of pushing and posturing.

Yellow is more than adequate in this scenario for me. A sanction (USB/AA) needs to be applied (for match control purposes) but a red is not it.
 
Sometimes I think when forum is a little quiet someone deliberately throws a click bait question in here which every answer is correct and incorrect at the same time. Then watches the number of posts grow. Kind of like rose Facebook images asking what number does a bunch of bananas, a pizza and a monkey equal to.

For the OP, if you show me a high res video with different anglesand slow Mo, and give more context around the game, then I can give a definitive answer. But untill then the answer is, I can ignore, chat on the run, give free kick, public warn, yellow card, red card or a combination of above 😊
 
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one said:
Sometimes I think when forum is a little quiet someone deliberately throws a click bait question in here which every answer is correct and incorrect at the same time. Then watches the number of posts grow. Kind of like rose Facebook images asking what number does a bunch of bananas, a pizza and a monkey equal to.

For the OP, if you show me a high res video with different anglesand slow Mo, and give more context around the game, then I can give a definitive answer. But untill then the answer is, I can ignore, chat on the run, give free kick, public warn, yellow card, red card or a combination of above 😊
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Sorry you felt that way @one

Just a genuine question from a newly qualified ref who wanted to check his learning from the weekend. 👍
 
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snap_RL said:
Sorry you felt that way @one

Just a genuine question from a newly qualified ref who wanted to check his learning from the weekend. 👍
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I know mate. Just a bit of good ole sarcasm there to make a point. :)

As others have already said, it's a "you have to be there" question.

And even if you are there, the answer depends on where there is. Different there's would have different answers. I think you get the point here or in my previous post. Refereeing is not black and white. There are a lot of grey areas. You just have make confident decision and sell it.
 
one said:
As others have already said, it's a "you have to be there" question
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I didn't need to be there for this incident. Caution for USB all day along on my FOP
Not being silly or flippant BTW.... I just know I'm not sending off for this sorta thing unless there's some additional convincing reason to do so
 
Big Cat said:
I didn't need to be there for this incident. Caution for USB all day along on my FOP
Not being silly or flippant BTW.... I just know I'm not sending off for this sorta thing unless there's some additional convincing reason to do so
Click to expand...

same, nothing about it seems brutal.
 
snap_RL said:
I've been mulling this over for the weekend and not sure whether I made a mistake in Law or made a decent judgement call here...

Two players go in for a 50/50, no fouls committed, both players end up on the ground, ball is still in play somewhere in the midfield. I keep any eye on the two players lying on the ground and Red #8 kicks out at Blue #6 and makes contact. It's really gentle. No force at all all, but there is contact. It's just petulance and frustration.

I blow the whistle and give a YC for Red #8.

Since then I think this probably should have been a red card for VC, but I think as it was so gentle, at the time I thought it merited a lesser sanction. I had decent control of the game before this (and after to be fair), but I now think I got this wrong and it should have been a red irrespective of the force of the kick.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

Ok I'd just say it. If you did half as good as a job you did on the field as you did here for selling it as a yellow card, I think you can concentrate on other skills now.

Everyone here thinks it's a yellow (including me secretly). Not a bit more or less.
 
one said:
Ok I'd just say it. If you did half as good as a job you did on the field as you did here for selling it as a yellow card, I think you can concentrate on other skills now.

Everyone here thinks it's a yellow (including me secretly). Not a bit more or less.
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@snap_RL Don't worry about @one mate. He's just miffed because his spelling and grammar aren't up to the same level as his knowledge of the LOTG. 😉😁

You have your answer(s). At the end of the day, that's what this forum is for. 🙂👍
 
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