A&H

Dogso question

Phonesurgeon

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
Level 7 Referee
Esteemed colleagues I need your input on this one.
Scene: 89th minute orange v blue score is level, blue defender launch ball for their fast striker. Striker left the 2 orange defender on halfway line, orange gk meet striker outside the d, pulls striker shirt and let go, striker stops after shirt pull. No orange defender on sight, only other person close was me.
Got swarmed by blue players shouting red for gk, tried to leave the spot, still following so 4 of them got the YC. Eventually they went, and I got few second to assess the situation. So gk outside area, pull shirt striker stop, no other players near apart from me.
So gk got RC, restart is a free kick. Explained to gk and took RC on the chin.
I feel that the striker after got shirt pulled, could have continued the run and score the winner, saving all the hassle... Do you think I made the correct call? Or perhaps I could have shouted advantage for striker to continue play and score?
 
The Referee Store
Sounds bang on to me

Don't shout advantage until an advantage has accrued. The shout of advantage is not a signal that you'd prefer them to keep playing, it is a signal that since they have kept playing you are content for them to play on.

And I think smart work dealing with the remonstrations first. That way you don't send the signal to either side that your decision is being swayed by ridiculous behaviour
 
Where abouts are you based? 4 yellows for dissent = x4 10 minute sit downs + a red card means = game abandoned in England as there would be less than 7 players left on the field of play.

I'd disagree that the player stopping dictates whether you can play advantage or not.
What you need to assess is can the player continue and will it be a benefit to the attacking team. If it is then you play advantage.

Obviously if you stop play for a foul, your description can't be anything other than a DOGSO
 
4 sin Nina one side, one red for the other side. Game doesn't have to be abandoned.

The only thing I would ask is if cautioned the blue player's one at a time and gave the others a chance to reassess their protest. I find it unlikely that after the second or third card there would still be more players protesting.

Otherwise I think you did everything else right by your description.
 
JamesL said:
I'd disagree that the player stopping dictates whether you can play advantage or not.
What you need to assess is can the player continue and will it be a benefit to the attacking team. If it is then you play advantage.
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A very dangerous path to go on. You play advantage and the attacker says no I want the free kick (or on another occasion I want the PK). While this is happening the keeper runs and gets the ball. What next?
 
one said:
A very dangerous path to go on. You play advantage and the attacker says no I want the free kick (or on another occasion I want the PK). While this is happening the keeper runs and gets the ball. What next?
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Who is refereeing the game, you or the attacker?
 
one said:
4 sin Nina one side, one red for the other side. Game doesn't have to be abandoned.

The only thing I would ask is if cautioned the blue player's one at a time and gave the others a chance to reassess their protest. I find it unlikely that after the second or third card there would still be more players protesting.

Otherwise I think you did everything else right by your description.
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Doh. Haha got my teams mixed up. 🤣 As you were.
 
It's really simple:

Did the Goalkeeper commit an offence in your opinion? (Feels like this is a "yes" from your comments.

Having deemed it an offence, does it meet the 4 key criteria for DOGSO (Distance, Defenders, Direction, Control (having or likelihood of gaining)?

As you are dealing with a pull, whether it's outside or inside the PA is irrelevant as there is no attempt to play the ball.

As for the dissent, could you have handled it any differently to avoid having 4 players from the same team all sitting down together for the last few minutes?
 
one said:
I get the point. But what next?
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Maybe 4 dissent cautions to the attacking team instead 😂

Rule number 1 when learning to play football don't let it bounce
Rule number 2 play to the whistle.

I get what your saying, and I am not disagreeing. Though, I fancy a very big and early shout of play on advantage would spark any attacker worth his salt into action to just the pop the ball in the net.

Really, its a YHTBT to feel what is right, was the pull enough to force the attacker to Stop, could he have continued, was there a benefit to the attacking side..
Was it a pull, or was it a holding offence.. Do you pull a shirt, or do you hold it...
For me, if the contact is brief, did not impede the players movement, or progress and the attacker just thinks stuff it, I'll get the keeper sent off I'd be surprised at myself if I allowed that to happen.

Not saying you are wrong and I am right, just how I see it on how its written.
 
JamesL said:
Really, its a YHTBT to feel what is right, was the pull enough to force the attacker to Stop, could he have continued, was there a benefit to the attacking side..
Was it a pull, or was it a holding offence.. Do you pull a shirt, or do you hold it...
For me, if the contact is brief, did not impede the players movement, or progress and the attacker just thinks stuff it, I'll get the keeper sent off I'd be surprised at myself if I allowed that to happen.
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This is it for me. Did the keeper hold on to the shirt which stopped the attacker from getting to the ball or was it a pull that had no effect on the attacker?

BE5E9BB4-589E-4BE6-98EF-40ADFFC75D17.jpeg
 
Ok just to reiterate, the 4 YC were given to blue attacking team, not sin bins but C1 AA.
As for the gk Vs striker, there was a shirt pull, outside PA, but... By the time the shirt pull happened, gk stopped and blue attacker stopped 2 paces in front (gk now behind) and ball rolling slowly a few paces in front of blu attacker, if wanted the attacker could have run and scored the winner, but decided to stop. That's why I was wondering whether shouting the advantage... Ball stopped inside PA. As blue attacker stopped, I felt I had no choice but to blow whistle. By the time I dealt with cards, watch said 90+5, so ideally I should have whistle full time, but silly me I allowed the free kick to take place, shouting last play, ball crossed into PA, defender booted it up the pitch, and full time happened, score level at 3-3.
 
Looking back do you think you should have given 4 x sin bin instead? I can't think of a situation where AA towards a referee wouldn't be dissent by word or action, at the very least.
 
Phonesurgeon said:
By the time I dealt with cards, watch said 90+5, so ideally I should have whistle full time, but silly me I allowed the free kick to take place, shouting last play, ball crossed into PA, defender booted it up the pitch, and full time happened, score level at 3-3.
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My two cents:

There isn't enough here to know whether you should have blown for full time. If there was meaningful time left when the foul occurred, adding time would make sense. (The Laws used to be clear that lost time needed to be added, regardless of whether the team causing the delays would benefit--I don't think that is expressly there anymore.) The time could also have been a tool to get the attackers to behave: with a meaningful look at the watch, "gents, clock is ticking, if you want time to take your FK, you need to get ready right now." But once you took a bunch of time to manage with the clock running, you're a bit stuch and, IMO, need to take the kick.

I would not advocate calling out last play. When time is up, just blow.

(I'll leave it to your colleagues on your side of the pond to weigh in on dissent versus AA under local expectations--what you describe sounds like dissent to me.)
 
Phonesurgeon said:
Ok just to reiterate, the 4 YC were given to blue attacking team, not sin bins but C1 AA.
As for the gk Vs striker, there was a shirt pull, outside PA, but... By the time the shirt pull happened, gk stopped and blue attacker stopped 2 paces in front (gk now behind) and ball rolling slowly a few paces in front of blu attacker, if wanted the attacker could have run and scored the winner, but decided to stop. That's why I was wondering whether shouting the advantage... Ball stopped inside PA. As blue attacker stopped, I felt I had no choice but to blow whistle. By the time I dealt with cards, watch said 90+5, so ideally I should have whistle full time, but silly me I allowed the free kick to take place, shouting last play, ball crossed into PA, defender booted it up the pitch, and full time happened, score level at 3-3.
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Sorry to sound critical, but that is wrong. You said yourself that players swarmed you, that can't be AAA and is textbook dissent by word or action. Generally speaking AAA is between players, any such behaviour shown to referees is always going to be dissent and therefore a sin bin.
 
Phonesurgeon said:
Ok just to reiterate, the 4 YC were given to blue attacking team, not sin bins but C1 AA.
As for the gk Vs striker, there was a shirt pull, outside PA, but... By the time the shirt pull happened, gk stopped and blue attacker stopped 2 paces in front (gk now behind) and ball rolling slowly a few paces in front of blu attacker, if wanted the attacker could have run and scored the winner, but decided to stop. That's why I was wondering whether shouting the advantage... Ball stopped inside PA. As blue attacker stopped, I felt I had no choice but to blow whistle. By the time I dealt with cards, watch said 90+5, so ideally I should have whistle full time, but silly me I allowed the free kick to take place, shouting last play, ball crossed into PA, defender booted it up the pitch, and full time happened, score level at 3-3.
Click to expand...

Ignoring the dissent action, which I think you know now (and absolutely sending them one at a time to the bin should stop that kind of onslaught) I've got some sympathy with you here. The key question for you is the one Degnann notes above. Did the pull stop the attacker? It sounds like it didn't, in which case it's up to him to play to the whistle not to try and get an opponent sent off. You can signal this by talking - 'you still have it striker', for example. But I agree it's tough if they then stop completely.

One other handy note - I'd never say things like 'last play' - it will only set you up for problems! This was a case in point.
 
Stopping the play to get the GK sent off actually worked against him on this occasion, so hopefully he won't do it in future. If he'd kept going then his team would have won the game. By stopping to get the keeper sent he actually cost his team two points, because they didn't score and so drew the match. I'd call that Karma!
 
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