The Ref Stop

Dutch FA Rule Change Proposals

JamesL

JamesL

Moderator
Staff member
Level 3 Referee
https://twitter.com/x/status/1796093511994847514

Like the idea of flying substitutions, especially when there is a 4th official. Not sure it would work though as teams would just wait for their restart and point to the player dawdling off before restarting. Great idea in theory, in practise, won't change the existing issue of subs interrupting and being used to delay/waste time or slow game down.

Kick ins form ball out of play over the touchline - again not the worst idea. Would be easier to manage restart location. But feels like too much of an advantage could be gained from ball simply leaving the field of play.

Advantages and disadvantages of stop clock been discussed many a time. Sin bins unlikely to happen at top levels.

Self pass for free kicks would be an interesting theory to trial. But would that take spectacular free kicks out of the game?

One thing I sense is that "football" not entirely happy with the rule set at present.
 
The Ref Stop
JamesL said:
One thing I sense is that "football" not entirely happy with the rule set at present.
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While I can’t dispute this, it has to be said that ‘football’ isn’t exactly happen with any proposed rule changes either. There is a wide spread concensus of ‘leave the game alone’, evident especially after the proposed introduction of SinBins.

Personally, having done tournaments which utilise Kick Ins; I can’t stand them. I’m not sure why, but I just think Throw Ins are such a fundamental part of the game, and in using Kick Ins, most Throw Ins in the attacking half could be put into the Penalty Area.

No clue what flying subs are.
 
JamesL said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1796093511994847514

Like the idea of flying substitutions, especially when there is a 4th official. Not sure it would work though as teams would just wait for their restart and point to the player dawdling off before restarting. Great idea in theory, in practise, won't change the existing issue of subs interrupting and being used to delay/waste time or slow game down.

Kick ins form ball out of play over the touchline - again not the worst idea. Would be easier to manage restart location. But feels like too much of an advantage could be gained from ball simply leaving the field of play.

Advantages and disadvantages of stop clock been discussed many a time. Sin bins unlikely to happen at top levels.

Self pass for free kicks would be an interesting theory to trial. But would that take spectacular free kicks out of the game?

One thing I sense is that "football" not entirely happy with the rule set at present.
Click to expand...
I remember many years ago when Glenn Hoddle said that if kick ins were introduced he would leave football!
 
think a lot of that is taken from / inspired by field hockey which has all of those rules implemented i think and they work well, especially the self pass from free kick / throw in equivalent
 
george.g said:
While I can’t dispute this, it has to be said that ‘football’ isn’t exactly happen with any proposed rule changes either. There is a wide spread concensus of ‘leave the game alone’, evident especially after the proposed introduction of SinBins.

Personally, having done tournaments which utilise Kick Ins; I can’t stand them. I’m not sure why, but I just think Throw Ins are such a fundamental part of the game, and in using Kick Ins, most Throw Ins in the attacking half could be put into the Penalty Area.

No clue what flying subs are.
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My nature is 'Conservative' (no reference to Politics)
'Leave the game alone' works. Making occasional radical changes to the LOTG also has a lot of history of working. Making frequent radical changes to the LOTG has a recent history of being very detrimental
I think ball in-play will inevitably end up being timed, but the rest of the Dutch tuppence worth is not what we need as the game wrestles with VAR etc.
 
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David G said:
I remember many years ago when Glenn Hoddle said that if kick ins were introduced he would leave football!
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We had kick-ins in the 1990's in (I think) the equivalent of (what is now) the Step 3/4 for a couple of season, as a trial.

Trial in Isthmian League

Not a huge success, but throws from just inside the opposition half, became a huge punt into the box - and being a "throw-in", no offside; so the keeper was always challenging the biggest defender. More chance for penalties via VAR....
 
Well, most of these (not self free kicks) are in futsal, so heavily ”trialled” in indoor football, which has a law book that is now a mirror of the big football LotG with a few exceptions.

Futsal is a different game but again, many of the laws are exactly as big football.

E.g. Game clock is easy enough. At grassroots and lower leagues the home team provides a timekeeper and writer. At top levels you need an extra official. In futsal it works. But it is connected to the four second count for restarts as timekeeping is designed to keep the game moving. I don’t think big football wants this. Instead big football could be clearer about added time, what scenarios require added time etc. I don’t think a game clock will benefit big football.

Flying subs with ball in play are also in futsal at all levels (so that means Fifa and Uefa tournaments - this is not a new thing to football!)

Flying subs with ball in play are also in use in grassroots football around the world - to promote inclusion/participation. Where I am, 6th tier down uses flying subs with ball in play. I’ve given maybe two entering without permission YCs in 11 years in 300+ big football matches with flying subs. It is perfectly normal and no problem here (part of footballing and sports culture, as e.g ice hockey with flying subs is the biggest sport).

(I wager that we get less trouble from flying subs than UK refs get from CARs …BUT I can also imagine that the UK couldn’t change to flying subs at grassroots without a world of pain because of decades of ahem culture).
 
For kick ins they would need to mandate that it can only be played along the floor, or can't be kicked further than a set distance. Otherwise every throw in becomes a corner, and that risks ruining football. Skilful players would be marginalised in favour of big lumps to throw in the box as the numbers of "corners" per game would increase massively.

I've seen games with flying subs and they generally work OK.
 
Gabriel said:
Good idea, but how are they supposed to control that? I personally don’t want to use a tape measure every time the ball crosses the touchline!
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Would just have to be a judgement thing. It having to stay on the floor, or even using the 5-a-side head height rule, might be easier to manage, the point is they would need to do something.
 
I really like futsal, and think ball on the floor for kick ins would work. In general, I don't like the idea of having to use your hands for anything to do with football and really dislike the ample 'that's not a good throw ref' each week.

Timed restarts would also help with not every throw in becoming a corner, however I don't think football will accept that.

In short, would look forward to these trials (I am Dutch) but am not expecting any of these rules to stick due to 'tradition'
 
Gabriel said:
Good idea, but how are they supposed to control that? I personally don’t want to use a tape measure every time the ball crosses the touchline!
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Not a fan of when people say things like this.

Do you use a tape measure for anything currently in football as a referee while the match is live?

I understand it is a metaphor, but your point isn't a great one as currently the only thing as a referee you are going to measure out is a ceremonial freekick, with 10 somewhat quick steps. Everything else is just the eye test.

What makes you think you would be expected to rigorously measure out every kick-in?

On that note, I think if kick-ins did become a thing, marking out the pitch for their distance wouldn't be a terrible idea.
 
OldNavyRef said:
Not a fan of when people say things like this.

Do you use a tape measure for anything currently in football as a referee while the match is live?

I understand it is a metaphor, but your point isn't a great one as currently the only thing as a referee you are going to measure out is a ceremonial freekick, with 10 somewhat quick steps. Everything else is just the eye test.

What makes you think you would be expected to rigorously measure out every kick-in?

On that note, I think if kick-ins did become a thing, marking out the pitch for their distance wouldn't be a terrible idea.
Click to expand...
I think measuring distance in stopped play, where we can measure in paces for example, is very different to measuring the distance a ball has travelled across the field.

This is due to the reference points, for example, we can’t use paces. We can’t use pitch markings, as pitches are allowed to be different sizes in law, as well as the fact the distance from the edge of the 18 to the centre circle, and touchlines can very by measure of tens of yards.

Therefore, I think in this instance, Gabriel’s point is completely valid (I know you touched on this), and we really shouldn’t have Kick Ins, at least not with a distance we’re responsible for eyeballing.

Stuff such as head height rules and other things in 5 a side are far more manageable, and show that these things can, sometimes, be implemented.

PS; it’s 2AM… go to bed!!
 
george.g said:
I think measuring distance in stopped play, where we can measure in paces for example, is very different to measuring the distance a ball has travelled across the field.

This is due to the reference points, for example, we can’t use paces. We can’t use pitch markings, as pitches are allowed to be different sizes in law, as well as the fact the distance from the edge of the 18 to the centre circle, and touchlines can very by measure of tens of yards.

Therefore, I think in this instance, Gabriel’s point is completely valid (I know you touched on this), and we really shouldn’t have Kick Ins, at least not with a distance we’re responsible for eyeballing.

Stuff such as head height rules and other things in 5 a side are far more manageable, and show that these things can, sometimes, be implemented.

PS; it’s 2AM… go to bed!!
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Post midnight is my active time on the forum ;)

Kick-ins will surely be 'stopped play' similar to a quick freekick.

Also referees are already having to gauge the distance a ball has travelled across the field in games currently: freekicks in a teams own half and quick freekicks when it hits an opposition player roughly 10 yards away; a dropped ball; when a player is taking a throw in and a player is standing roughly 2 yards from them.

You just go with your gut. No 'measuring tape' or pitch references required.

It is already something referees are expected to do regularly, so stating the introduction of kick-ins will require some excessive effort from referees to workout, is a little off the mark for me, when they are doing it already in similar sitautions.

However, I think kicks-ins sound crap but they would eliminate the whole having to listen to players, spectators and the coaching team whinge about foul throws every 2 minutes because they don't understand them and swap it for 'that was never 10 yards ref'.
 
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