A&H

Extra Time

Michael Bolton

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Level 7 Referee
I had a bit of a mind blank in my last cup match.

The match went to extra time after a last minute equaliser. In a moment of brain freeze, I started the extra time with the teams kicking off the direction they dis in the first half of normal time, and the team that kicked off first kicking off. After extra time kicked off I thought that I should have done another coin toss to decide which direction teams played and who kicked off.

Should I have done another coin toss or not as it has been on my mind ever since, and I want to do it correct in my next cup game, which is Saturday.
 
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I think the standard answer is yes, new coin flip for KO/direction--but I don't think it is actually specified in the LOTG.
 
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Always a new coin toss for extra time. In the past it made not a scrap of difference since there are 2 halves and both teams got to kick off but obviously now, the winner gets choice of ends or kick off . At least you'll remember if and when it happens again now ... :) 👍
 
You can get out of one of them by citing "other considerations" though.

At grassroots that's most likely because one penalty mark or at least the ground it sits on isn't up to scratch.

Yup. In stadiums, flips will be the norm, but on community fields, not so much. (All of the games I do are at either public parks or schools.) When I have games that might go to kicks, I think about this issue before the game--I don't think I have yet had one where I would have held a flip. Various factors--condition of goal or mark, sun, where bystander traffic or warming up teams are, etc.
 
I think the standard answer is yes, new coin flip for KO/direction--but I don't think it is actually specified in the LOTG.

You are correct - nowhere in the LOTG does it explicitly say to conduct the same coin toss at the start of extra time just like you do at the start of the game. However, I'm sure the writers of the magic book figured we would consider extra time as "the start of a new game" like the National Football League states regarding overtime.

In a game where you play full-on extra time, what @Michael Bolton did isn't as big of a deal as if I would do that in a game with golden goal/sudden victory extra time. In that case, the team with the wind in the first half has a big advantage. Our high school rules book (for those of you outside of the US, they adapt the Laws of the Game, put their own organization in it, and sell it to us) specifically says we are to flip a coin at the start of our extra time - primarily because many states will use golden goal.

Regarding KFTM, one of the considerations I always consider for high school matches (which, in my state, will always go to KTFM if we are tied after regulation and two 10-minute golden goal periods - yes, I hate doing KTFM in the regular season as well) is where the home team's students or more obnoxious fans are sitting. Earlier this season, we want to KTFM. The home team's boys soccer team at the south end of the ground was at the game and being pretty loud (not nasty or too obnoxious, just loud), so I made the decision to take the kicks at the north end. I gambled that the students wouldn't stand along the fence line at ground level (like many high school matches, we were playing in the same field used for American football, so there were decent-sized bleachers), and I was right. I figured the students wouldn't be directing comments at the opponents if we were at the other end of the field.
 
You are correct - nowhere in the LOTG does it explicitly say to conduct the same coin toss at the start of extra time just like you do at the start of the game. However, I'm sure the writers of the magic book figured we would consider extra time as "the start of a new game" like the National Football League states regarding overtime.

In a game where you play full-on extra time, what @Michael Bolton did isn't as big of a deal as if I would do that in a game with golden goal/sudden victory extra time. In that case, the team with the wind in the first half has a big advantage. Our high school rules book (for those of you outside of the US, they adapt the Laws of the Game, put their own organization in it, and sell it to us) specifically says we are to flip a coin at the start of our extra time - primarily because many states will use golden goal.

Regarding KFTM, one of the considerations I always consider for high school matches (which, in my state, will always go to KTFM if we are tied after regulation and two 10-minute golden goal periods - yes, I hate doing KTFM in the regular season as well) is where the home team's students or more obnoxious fans are sitting. Earlier this season, we want to KTFM. The home team's boys soccer team at the south end of the ground was at the game and being pretty loud (not nasty or too obnoxious, just loud), so I made the decision to take the kicks at the north end. I gambled that the students wouldn't stand along the fence line at ground level (like many high school matches, we were playing in the same field used for American football, so there were decent-sized bleachers), and I was right. I figured the students wouldn't be directing comments at the opponents if we were at the other end of the field.
Interesting to see Golden Goal in use 17 years after FIFA discontinued its use🤔
 
From what I've heard from some American referees, NFHS are a law completely unto themselves!

NFHS "rules" are an interesting mash-up of FIFA Laws of the Game and some adaptations meant to help control school costs and make soccer more appealing to the casual fan. NCAA (our primary collegiate/university governing body) rules are closer to FIFA, but there are still some pretty stark differences.

The two biggest issues for me are the acceptance of a "two-whistle" system where we only have two referees who can both whistle for fouls (one state uses a strange system that's like the diagonal but with ALL THREE referees able to whistle fouls) and the preferred use of a countdown scoreboard. As you can imagine, we always have some instances where the scoreboard horn goes off just as the ball is near the goal line. Even though the half really doesn't end until the referee whistles, your average fan (who is used to basketball where the buzzer/horn signals the end of time) doesn't realize that. Good luck trying to explain to a coach (one way or another) that you are positive the goal should or shouldn't count because of the scoreboard clock!

I know referees have lobbied NFHS to remove the scoreboard clock as a timing device, but too many fans are comfortable looking at the scoreboard to see how much time is left. This despite everyone having a stopwatch in their pockets that they could easily use if they wanted to know approximately how much time is left.
 
NFHS "rules" are an interesting mash-up of FIFA Laws of the Game and some adaptations meant to help control school costs and make soccer more appealing to the casual fan. NCAA (our primary collegiate/university governing body) rules are closer to FIFA, but there are still some pretty stark differences.

The two biggest issues for me are the acceptance of a "two-whistle" system where we only have two referees who can both whistle for fouls (one state uses a strange system that's like the diagonal but with ALL THREE referees able to whistle fouls) and the preferred use of a countdown scoreboard. As you can imagine, we always have some instances where the scoreboard horn goes off just as the ball is near the goal line. Even though the half really doesn't end until the referee whistles, your average fan (who is used to basketball where the buzzer/horn signals the end of time) doesn't realize that. Good luck trying to explain to a coach (one way or another) that you are positive the goal should or shouldn't count because of the scoreboard clock!

I know referees have lobbied NFHS to remove the scoreboard clock as a timing device, but too many fans are comfortable looking at the scoreboard to see how much time is left. This despite everyone having a stopwatch in their pockets that they could easily use if they wanted to know approximately how much time is left.
Both those, two whistles and scoreboard clock, are use in futsal internationally and work well.
 
Both those, two whistles and scoreboard clock, are use in futsal internationally and work well.

I definitely understand that, but a futsal court is somewhere around 1/6 the size of an international soccer field. A futsal court is somewhere around 1,000 square meters (I used 42m x 25m, which is the max length and minimum width for a FIFA-compliant futsal court), while a 105m x 68m field is over 7,000 square meters. Futsal referees also don't have to worry about offside. Using two referees for soccer means you have to give something up in terms of positioning. Usually, it means the "trail referee" has to take a "halfway" position where he can somewhat get into position to watch for fouls while still being in a position to have a chance of re-establishing the 2LD line for offside. The trade-off is that the middle of the field has little referee presence.

The scoreboard situation is more about finding competent people to run them and follow my instructions to stop the clock. I've resorted to handing the game adminstrator a list of when to stop the clock (besides when I give the "stop clock" signal of crossing my wrists above my head). I love the game of futsal and am leading efforts in my state to get more of us certified to work futsal. The two-whistle system works well for futsal, but not for soccer unless it's a small-sided game on a smaller field.
 
I definitely understand that, but a futsal court is somewhere around 1/6 the size of an international soccer field. A futsal court is somewhere around 1,000 square meters (I used 42m x 25m, which is the max length and minimum width for a FIFA-compliant futsal court), while a 105m x 68m field is over 7,000 square meters. Futsal referees also don't have to worry about offside. Using two referees for soccer means you have to give something up in terms of positioning. Usually, it means the "trail referee" has to take a "halfway" position where he can somewhat get into position to watch for fouls while still being in a position to have a chance of re-establishing the 2LD line for offside. The trade-off is that the middle of the field has little referee presence.

The scoreboard situation is more about finding competent people to run them and follow my instructions to stop the clock. I've resorted to handing the game adminstrator a list of when to stop the clock (besides when I give the "stop clock" signal of crossing my wrists above my head). I love the game of futsal and am leading efforts in my state to get more of us certified to work futsal. The two-whistle system works well for futsal, but not for soccer unless it's a small-sided game on a smaller field.
I take you word for it. I have never seen it done in football (soccer) so don't know how it works or doesn't work. I was simply making the point that just because it different it doesn't necessarily mean it's not good.
 
I take you word for it. I have never seen it done in football (soccer) so don't know how it works or doesn't work. I was simply making the point that just because it different it doesn't necessarily mean it's not good.
I began reffing way back when in a league that always used two refs. My take is the best value of two refs in soccer is training--a newbie can have a whistle with support from an experienced ref. For low level/young games, it can work. For more competitive games, the tension between position to manage the game and the position to call OS is insurmountable. The best solution is losing control of OS; the worst solution is focussing on OS, which devolves to roughly ARs with whistles and no R in the middle. For it to work at all, you need great consistency between the two refs, which is pretty difficult to pull off.

We do even more odd things in parts of the US for HS. In some places they do what is called the "double-dual" or "TROF" (three referees on field). Roughly, the ARs trade their flags for whistles and come onto the field. And in some places they rotate, so each ref spends 1/3 of the game in the center.
 
From what I've heard from some American referees, NFHS are a law completely unto themselves!
Which is exactly the point - the NFHS is a wholly independent regulatory body, with no affiliation to FIFA or the IFAB.

With regard to the system of refereeing, it's interesting to note that the IFAB did consider the idea (proposed by the FA) of a dual referee system back in 1937 but ultimately decided against it.

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As I recall, there was also an experiment done in the last decade or so with two refs (and still 2 ARs). Maybe in South America? . I seem to recall the experiment was stopped early because everyone hated it.
 
. . . was abandoned because of crowd trouble. I think the system was also used in the USSR earlier - Peter Grove will know😁
Such experiments were authorized in 1999 and abandoned in 2001. The 2000 meeting minutes say that experiments were going on in several leagues but only specifically mentions Italy and Brazil.
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