A&H

Failing to Respect the Distance

Out of interest is it:=
  • C4 - Delaying the restart of play
  • C5 - Failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, throw-in or free kick
Never sure
 
The Referee Store
HoofItYouDonkey said:
Out of interest is it:=
  • C4 - Delaying the restart of play
  • C5 - Failure to respect the required distance when play is restarted with a corner kick, throw-in or free kick
Never sure
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If play hasn't restarted, they're delaying it by acting in a way that prevents the opponent from taking the kick, C4.
If play has restarted and they have deliberately moved closer or into the path of the ball when already standing within distance, they're failing to respect the distance, C5.
 
Deltic said:
Ye can disagree all ye want. I'm not going to change, and I'd do the same again. Also, I do not (and never have) cared what assessors think (or anyone else for that matter). I have MY way of doing things, and it always works "for me". Each to their own.
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In my experience this isn’t an ideal attitude to have as a referee and refereeing is more rewarding if you are open to discussing decisions, options, strengths and weaknesses. But this is for another thread.

I’ve once triple YC’d a bench for dissent but because there had been warned and then in turn clearly and separately committed more dissent.

So, it’s interesting to consider single carding a wall or group celebration.
 
GraemeS said:
the home team immediately play it into his legs and appeal as one for a card
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I actually hate this, I get players should move away and not delay, but so many instances of players deliberately kicking it at retreating players to try and get them cautioned. In that instance I'd be more inclined to caution the kicker and not the retreating defender.
 
TSHudson said:
I actually hate this, I get players should move away and not delay, but so many instances of players deliberately kicking it at retreating players to try and get them cautioned. In that instance I'd be more inclined to caution the kicker and not the retreating defender.
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As annoying as it is the fact is they should not move into that position in the first place. You are only guessing whether they wanted to take the kick quickly or not. Fact is, they took it and the player failed to respect the required distance.
The only way you could sell a caution to kicker is if they kick the ball recklessly at their opponent.
Hard sell in both scenarios.
 
JamesL said:
As annoying as it is the fact is they should not move into that position in the first place. You are only guessing whether they wanted to take the kick quickly or not. Fact is, they took it and the player failed to respect the required distance.
The only way you could sell a caution to kicker is if they kick the ball recklessly at their opponent.
Hard sell in both scenarios.
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there’s a difference between a player who deliberately moves in towards the area of the offence and a player who has committed the foul and then the enterprising attacker kicks the ball at their legs in an attempt to get the referee to caution.

As with all of these things, you need to be able to sell it, so there are no surprises.
shouting “step away number <x>” and them not doing it, then it’s an easy sell to give the caution as the player has clearly been told what you expect and has not complied.
 
TSHudson said:
That's why I very specifically said "retreating" not talking about players moving into the way of the free kick
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These two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Quite often a player runs in from a distance to in front of the ball and then slowly starts to retreat having heard the ref shout 'move away'. It is during the retreat that the opponent kicks the ball at the defender's foot (not being happy with him run from distance to close his options of a QFK). These are the hardest decisions to sell no matter what 'correct in law' decision you make because the defender actually responds to you by starting to retreat but the attacker was disadvantaged by the original running in. What I would do in this case is very much context dependent and also where the ball ends up. But it is likely a retake with a caution.

Often I see referees order a retake without a caution which is incorrect in law but that is a different debate.
 
Delaying the restart = Time wasting = Depends whose winning
Failing to respect distance = Taking the WotNot = SPA - reasonable time to retreat
 
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santa sangria said:
I’ve once triple YC’d a bench for dissent but because there had been warned and then in turn clearly and separately committed more dissent.

So, it’s interesting to consider single carding a wall or group celebration.
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I'd like to give feedback on this but the description is very thin for useful feedback. On the whole I would try to avoid a situation like this though.

Was it on the same stoppage (I assume so)?
When you say separately, do you mean at different times and in sequence?
Was the second dissent after you had shown the first yellow, (how bout the next sequence)?
How did you deliver the warning and each of the cards (I know most of these are YHTBT and hard to describe in words)?

From a game/player management view point, dissent yellow card is used not so much for punishment but to curb behavior for the better (sin-bin was introduced to stress this point). Sometimes you need to balance the deserved punishment with the negative impact it could have on curbing poor behavior.
 
one said:
I'd like to give feedback on this but the description is very thin for useful feedback. On the whole I would try to avoid a situation like this though.

Was it on the same stoppage (I assume so)?
When you say separately, do you mean at different times and in sequence?
Was the second dissent after you had shown the first yellow, (how bout the next sequence)?
How did you deliver the warning and each of the cards (I know most of these are YHTBT and hard to describe in words)?

From a game/player management view point, dissent yellow card is used not so much for punishment but to curb behavior for the better (sin-bin was introduced to stress this point). Sometimes you need to balance the deserved punishment with the negative impact it could have on curbing poor behavior.
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Team mate had just been sent off. The team had been warned earlier about dissent. It was futsal (sorry), so bench very close. After the RC, complaints from 3 of 4 bench warmers, including the captain. Another clear warning. Then in quick succession continued dissent in turn from three of them. They left me no choice at the time.

Wider context also that this team is "famous" for low level dissent in 11-a-side and futsal. They are actually beautiful at it and a great case study. It is part of their dogged approach that helps them stay in a league way above their ability level. Since this incident I haven't had a problem with them in 11-a-side or futsal. This suggests that I could have handled my first couple of 11-a-side games with them better - I could have! - at the time they were the first big tests after promotion for me and it took time to adjust.

Context!
 
Yeah it sounds like it has had the desired outcome. Would one caution have had the same outcome? Possibly not. The reason I asked about delivery was the body language has to come across as, as you put it, "I have no options left but to caution all 3 of you" and not "I have told you so many times and am now so frustrated. Here is one for you one for you and one for you. Anybody else". I have actually seen the latter case and the ref yelling "anybody else" after two caution.
 
one said:
Yeah it sounds like it has had the desired outcome. Would one caution have had the same outcome? Possibly not. The reason I asked about delivery was the body language has to come across as, as you put it, "I have no options left but to caution all 3 of you" and not "I have told you so many times and am now so frustrated. Here is one for you one for you and one for you. Anybody else". I have actually seen the latter case and the ref yelling "anybody else" after two caution.
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I've used "form a queue if you like lads" and "in for a penny in for a pound" when a couple of cautions haven't got the message across and they wanted to keep yapping.
 
RustyRef said:
I've used "form a queue if you like lads" and "in for a penny in for a pound" when a couple of cautions haven't got the message across and they wanted to keep yapping.
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Keeping the context in mind which is 'group cautions' at the same time, it is a lot less about what you say and a lot more about what makes you say it and how you say it what makes it right or wrong. If you are saying it (and have done your second or third caution) out of frustration and showing emotions and body language accordingly, then at the very least it looks unprofessional but also unlikely to help your cause in the long run. If you do and say it in a controlled way and you know that is what you have to do/say to prevent future offences/dissent then that is good refereeing.
 
I remember a game about 8 weeks go having 2 cautions for this very thing. One, the 2nd one of the two, actually led to a sending off following dissent about 2 minutes earlier. His team were 7-2 up too in a cup match.

Another game, 2 weeks ago, had 2 failing to respect in about 3 minutes apart. Both easy cautions and I actually thank them too when I call them over now. I tell them it is the easiest one I'll give out in a game and, especially on the 2nd one in this match, I tell them I'm not that shy to not give it.
The amount in the last few years that have led to 2nd yellows is astounding to be honest. I think I've hit double figures. It's not a low threshold for me as I use the same process as above. Has to have deliberately got in the way, stuck a foot out, ran to stop it etc. I'm not necessarily giving one if the kicker literally kicks it at them giving them no chance to move when it is "super" quick. The kicker has a choice to play any other direction or wait a second to let them get up or move...
 
Kids football id say 90% of fouls a player will attempt to stand in front of the kicker usually on the instructions of the manager shouting "stand on it, stand on it"

I usually just give a "move away 6, listen to me not him"
 
The thing about this is that not every referee cautions for it. It should be a caution but the precedent has been set, both on TV and in the parks that it's okay to stand on the ball.

What I find helps is being proactive, blowing your whistle and giving the player a dressing down. That way you avoid a caution and the players know for next time, so there's no excuse.

Also, if you're worried that a caution will kill your match control, try and sell it like this: tell the player kicking the ball that it's further back from where it is, and also tell the player blocking him that if it was in the right place, it would have been a caution. Even if the ball is near enough the place, I find this works more often than not.

If they're silly enough to do it a second time after being warned, then that's on them now.
 
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