A&H

First abandonment

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Level 4 Referee
First abandonment today! Was expecting a tasty fixture but not an abandonment and unfortunately it was down to one player letting their side down.

Away team turned up with 7 men and were defending superbly. Only 1-0 down after 40 minutes but then the second went in and there was no offside given. Away team defender then runs up to the club assistant ref and starts threatening him. Red card, down to 6 players, match abandoned.

Then the outcome I didn’t expect, both sides pleading with me to let him off! Home team needed the points for the relegation battle they were in and the away team had a lengthy drive and wanted to carry on playing. I was then to blame for ‘taking the money and leaving’ by the Home team ....

Sometimes as a referee, you just can’t win!
 
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I can't believe a team would be willing to fulfil a fixture with less than 9 men. Complete waste of time
 
I can't believe a team would be willing to fulfil a fixture with less than 9 men. Complete waste of time

Sanctions are serious in some leagues if they don't. We fine £50 for a first offence in our top division which increases for further offences, plus we deduct 1 point for a first offence, 2 points for a second offence and 3 points for any subsequent offence(s). Plus if you are the away team you have to pay the home team's pitch cost which can be as much as £200.
 
Sanctions are serious in some leagues if they don't. We fine £50 for a first offence in our top division which increases for further offences, plus we deduct 1 point for a first offence, 2 points for a second offence and 3 points for any subsequent offence(s). Plus if you are the away team you have to pay the home team's pitch cost which can be as much as £200.
Not that bad a Grass Roots. Most teams pay for their pitch on for the whole season and there's no penalty for not using it. There's a fine for forfeiting, but the amount is not intended to kill grass routes teams. I ran a team for ten years> repeat offenders tend to fold due to lack of players, not punishing fines. Playing with 7 is a waste of everyone's time and the greater of two evils
 
Not that bad a Grass Roots. Most teams pay for their pitch on for the whole season and there's no penalty for not using it. There's a fine for forfeiting, but the amount is not intended to kill grass routes teams. I ran a team for ten years> repeat offenders tend to fold due to lack of players, not punishing fines. Playing with 7 is a waste of everyone's time and the greater of two evils
Teams who fold without paying their fines will have all their players registrations withheld, football debt recovery procedure put in place and all players effectively suspended sine die until they paid their share off.

For my local Sunday League, first offence for non fulfilment was £60, then £100 then £150 and put to other clubs whetehr they should be allowed back the following season.
 
I once started 9 v 11 and I sent off early a defender (as Last Man DOGSO) as he wiped out a clean through attacker from the 9..... I was then accused of trying to even things up blah, blah, blah :(,,, I responded that it was them that were doing their best to even things up!!! :rolleyes:
 
£60, then £100 then £150
These numbers are around double what I experienced as manager/secretary. Maybe times have changed
I don't believe in hammering clubs with fines as it only reduces participation. If i was struggling for players, my Sunday League was fairly helpful as they didn't want teams dropping out as this serves no purpose at all
 
Not that bad a Grass Roots. Most teams pay for their pitch on for the whole season and there's no penalty for not using it. There's a fine for forfeiting, but the amount is not intended to kill grass routes teams. I ran a team for ten years> repeat offenders tend to fold due to lack of players, not punishing fines. Playing with 7 is a waste of everyone's time and the greater of two evils

The league that I referred to is grass roots.
 
The league that I referred to is grass roots.
OK, then the FA are actively doing grass roots football no favours. I was referring to my extensive experience of running teams, but that was a good while ago. So, in this case, a team played with 7 to avoid a hefty fine, only to be fined for the abandonment after wasting everyone's time
 
These numbers are around double what I experienced as manager/secretary. Maybe times have changed
I don't believe in hammering clubs with fines as it only reduces participation. If i was struggling for players, my Sunday League was fairly helpful as they didn't want teams dropping out as this serves no purpose at all

Until this season, the cricket league that i play in were fining teams £10 per player for each man short the team was (2nd teams with 9 men for example, £20). They also fined clubs £10 if they dont have a scorer too. £100s worth of fines a season, mental for teams that are struggling teams struggling to fulfill fixtures need support not financial penalties.

Perhaps at grass roots, rather than abandonment for less than 7 players during the game, if both teams want to continue then maybe allow the team down to 6 to loan players from the opposition and continue the match but that team forfeits the game? At least all those that have turned up for a football match can still get a game and that's the most important thing at grass roots
 
These numbers are around double what I experienced as manager/secretary. Maybe times have changed
I don't believe in hammering clubs with fines as it only reduces participation. If i was struggling for players, my Sunday League was fairly helpful as they didn't want teams dropping out as this serves no purpose at all
The problem is that this type of team who don't turn up waste everyone's time and creates extra work. The team they were supposed to play all crawled out of bed or possibly even went home early from a night out because they were playing the next morning. The referee falls into the same category. The League Secretary has to raise a charge, deal with the response and hold a disciplinary hearing, even if the club says they accept the charge. The Fixture Secretary may have to re-arrange the game. The Appointments Secretary will have to arrange for a referee for the new fixture. He will also have to complete the admin so that the referee for the original date receives the appropriate payment if it wasn't made on the day.

And before anyone says, the rules are stupid, the rules are set up to ensure that the football remains organised and not a shambles. Also the fines are agreed by the clubs at the AGM each season and if they thought they were prohibitive then they could vote against them. The organised clubs don't mind them being high as they'll never pay them. The fines themselves go towards financing the purchase of medals and the engraving of trophies.

Can you tell I've been involved in running leagues for almost as long as I've been a referee?
 
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The problem is that this type of team who turn up waste everyone's time and creates extra work
This is the team who are struggling to survive
The team they were supposed to play all crawled out of bed or possibly even went home early from a night out because they were playing the next morning
The situation should have been communicated before the nights out were comprimised
The League Secretary has to raise a charge, deal with the response and hold a disciplinary hearing, even if the club says they accept the charge. The Fixture Secretary may have to re-arrange the game. The Appointments Secretary will have to arrange for a referee for the new fixture. He will also have to complete the admin so that the referee for the original date receives the appropriate payment if it wasn't made on the day.
Agreed, but this implicitly is for a team which is likely to fold
football remains organised and not a shambles
Aspects of football are a shambles, like abuse of referees being dealt with by a slap on the wrists
Can you tell I've been involved in running leagues for almost as long as I've been a referee?
Not sure of the relevance of this, but i was involved with running clubs for about 15 years, somewhat short of your refereeing career I'm guessing
Let's face it, the FA are not that interested in the vibrancy of grass roots football. They have limited resources which are focused on the money end of the market. Time and time again, I saw fines finish off struggling clubs which were probably buggered anyway. The Leagues would help, but the FA never showed the same discretion
Participation in OA grass roots football is in crisis. In my County, if you're not L6, middles will be in short supply as of next year (Saturdays)
 
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It was our member clubs that asked for the fines and points deductions, as they were fed up of losing out on football because opponents couldn't be bothered to play. And often it was just that, we lost count of the number of times a D3 side would be drawn away to a Premier team and come out with some excuse why they couldn't play. In reality it was that they and the players didn't fancy the long journey just to get hammered.
 
My 4pm went off at 3pm today, home team short of numbers. Thing is, I did the midday on the same park then left my kit there, went for shopping, grabbed a cuppa and was just parking back up when found out it was off.
I bumped into a few away players who had just turned up to find the game off.
So as above, park booked, (and still to be paid for), away team turning up, ref there, but no game....waste of whole day for some folk, half a day for some others.
 
Aspects of football are a shambles, like abuse of referees being dealt with by a slap on the wrists

Would you be happy knowing one club down here got hit with a £500 fine for something along these lines?

In reality it was that they and the players didn't fancy the long journey just to get hammered.

Utterly annoying. A local team for me, were well run last season. This season obviously some drama has happened. Everyone's left, they dropped to just the one senior team, they're rubbish, getting hammered by 5+ every week. Had a cup game, 40 mile round trip, cried off. Annoying to see.
 
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