A&H

Junior/Youth First Coach Dismissal

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Degnann

Degnann

As incompetent as the last ref
Level 4 Referee
Had a 2008 age group game today.
Black vs Red

Sent off red coach for OFFINABUS 4 minutes before half time. Clearly didn't agree with a decision I did not give his team.
Refused to give me his full name. Some other person was there who advised he couldn't leave the pitch due to COVID and there needing to be 2 coaches.
I admit I am not up to date with that as I should be. Will be refreshing myself on it now.

My first instance of this sort. Never had to brandish any card to a coach nevermind a red.

Already contacted the league to see about reporting it.

Just want to see how you guys handle this or what you would have done?
 
The Referee Store
The first time is always the hardest, they do get easier.

On the coach refusing to give name. You tell them that if they don’t you will be submitting an extraordinary misconduct report (don’t know if it’s the same terminology in Scotland) for refusal to do so and that will get him and the club into further trouble.

On refusing to leave - which unless he was the only physio available (which it didn’t sound like), you refuse to restart the game until he goes. If he still refuses, I will speak to the other occupant of the technical area with something like “if he’s still here in 60 seconds time, I’m abandoning the game and putting a further report in as to why I’ve done so. Time starts now”
 
Justylove said:
The first time is always the hardest, they do get easier.

On the coach refusing to give name. You tell them that if they don’t you will be submitting an extraordinary misconduct report (don’t know if it’s the same terminology in Scotland) for refusal to do so and that will get him and the club into further trouble.

On refusing to leave - which unless he was the only physio available (which it didn’t sound like), you refuse to restart the game until he goes. If he still refuses, I will speak to the other occupant of the technical area with something like “if he’s still here in 60 seconds time, I’m abandoning the game and putting a further report in as to why I’ve done so. Time starts now”
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The only thing I can find from SFA guidelines.

Left is 11v11 guide. 9v9 does state 2-3 coaches.
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@Degnann - the first is always the hardest.

Normally, you would make them leave but if you have issues with safeguarding then they are allowed to stay. If so, warn them that they are staying onto for safeguarding issues and if they saybanything else, a further misconduct report will be submitted for each further offence.

On not getting a name, do you get team sheets in Scotland? If so, just report the names given and mention he refused to give his name. If not, then just report the club and state he refused to give his name. In England, the club have to give his name to the CFA for the original offence and the club will get an extra charge and fine, for his failure.
 
socal lurker said:
What did he say?
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lincs22 said:
Called me an effing joke.

@Degnann - the first is always the hardest.

Normally, you would make them leave but if you have issues with safeguarding then they are allowed to stay. If so, warn them that they are staying onto for safeguarding issues and if they saybanything else, a further misconduct report will be submitted for each further offence.

On not getting a name, do you get team sheets in Scotland? If so, just report the names given and mention he refused to give his name. If not, then just report the club and state he refused to give his name. In England, the club have to give his name to the CFA for the original offence and the club will get an extra charge and fine, for his failure.
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No team sheets for this specific league's friendlies. I have emailed to ask how they would like it reported anyway. hopefully they take it seriously.
 
lincs22 said:
Doesn't matter, Ref decide to dismiss.
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Sure it does—he asked what we would have done.

@Degnann —with what he said, stone cold right to toss him. Well done—it’s not easy to do. Absent league rules that are different, my view is if you toss him and that means there aren’t the necessary number of adults, it doesn’t mean he gets to stay, it means the game is over. A coach who says that in a game of 12 year olds should get a suspension to wake him up. Can’t say that is what will happen, just what should happen.

Don’t let knuckleheads like this get you down. Work with whoever you need to locally to get it properly reported to help the next ref who has to deal with him.
 
socal lurker said:
Sure it does—he asked what we would have done.

@Degnann —with what he said, stone cold right to toss him. Well done—it’s not easy to do. Absent league rules that are different, my view is if you toss him and that means there aren’t the necessary number of adults, it doesn’t mean he gets to stay, it means the game is over. A coach who says that in a game of 12 year olds should get a suspension to wake him up. Can’t say that is what will happen, just what should happen.

Don’t let knuckleheads like this get you down. Work with whoever you need to locally to get it properly reported to help the next ref who has to deal with him.
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I never even considered abandoning the game because of the coaching numbers and something I hopefully won’t need to consider again.

submitted my report to the league this evening. Everything done on my end.
 
Degnann said:
I never even considered abandoning the game because of the coaching numbers and something I hopefully won’t need to consider again.

submitted my report to the league this evening. Everything done on my end.
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You'd be surprised how often the threat of abandonment will cause another parent to suddenly remember that they're DRS-checked and able to take over....

However it's important not to rely on that gambit - if you threaten abandonment and no one else does turn up, you're then pretty much obliged to go through with it.
 
For youth football there is a requirement for at least 2 coaches to be present due to safeguarding requirements.
 
GraemeS said:
You'd be surprised how often the threat of abandonment will cause another parent to suddenly remember that they're DRS-checked and able to take over....

However it's important not to rely on that gambit - if you threaten abandonment and no one else does turn up, you're then pretty much obliged to go through with it.
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Doesn't make much sense to think of it as a threat, just a statement of fact.
Coach 1 has been dismissed and must leave. Coach 2 remains present, but requires another.
Either Person 3 is suitably checked and can take over Coach 1's job - game continues - or Person 3 does not exist - game abandoned.
 
This is the
Nij said:
Doesn't make much sense to think of it as a threat, just a statement of fact.
Coach 1 has been dismissed and must leave. Coach 2 remains present, but requires another.
Either Person 3 is suitably checked and can take over Coach 1's job - game continues - or Person 3 does not exist - game abandoned.
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So if coach 1 does get sent off its a match abandoned if there is only 2 coaches available?
Its not like where you send the physio off but they stay on the side lines?
 
Nij said:
Doesn't make much sense to think of it as a threat, just a statement of fact.
Coach 1 has been dismissed and must leave. Coach 2 remains present, but requires another.
Either Person 3 is suitably checked and can take over Coach 1's job - game continues - or Person 3 does not exist - game abandoned.
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Don't forget though, these coaches are living in a dream world where you might change your mind - otherwise why would they bring up the idea of you not being able to dismiss them? The "threat" in that case is a clarification/reminder that it's not going to happen and they need to start seriously thinking about another solution.
 
Degnann said:
This is the

So if coach 1 does get sent off its a match abandoned if there is only 2 coaches available?
Its not like where you send the physio off but they stay on the side lines?
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Ugh. I've always hated that physio rule and felt myself lucky that I've never had to implement it.

You always have the option to abandon, at your discretion. So with the physio, my stance is always that it basically counts as an extra life for them - they've been sent off (shown a red card nowadays) but thanks to their unique role, they get an extra chance. That does not count as free reign to continue hurling abuse - so if they start making snide comments when they come on as the physio, or if I have to go over to the benches to shut them up again, we're going home. I'm not obliged to keep putting up with endless abuse just because someone's written a "P" by their name on the team sheet.

I'm not sure I'd voluntarily apply the same logic to an abusive coach at youth level. That coach is supposed to be the example to his players - if you show the kids that they will get a second chance, you're potentially making your own on-pitch life harder.
However it may be the case that you are expected to apply the same logic - as always, consult your competition rules.
 
Degnann said:
This is the

So if coach 1 does get sent off its a match abandoned if there is only 2 coaches available?
Its not like where you send the physio off but they stay on the side lines?
Click to expand...
If your competition rules require two coaches, it doesn't matter why they suddenly have just one and can't find a replacement.
The same applies where only one coach with similar requirements is involved and they leave.
Red card? Partner having a child? Cop called to duty? Find a second or match abandoned.
 
@Degnann
A little late on this thread, however in most Scottish youth leagues governed under the SYFA the named first-aider has to remain at the side of the park at all times. If you decide to dismiss him he must be seperated from the rest of the touchline and only called upon when required (e.g injuries). You then report this in the match report. If he keeps giving you hassle then you can either add an aditional report or abandon the game, depending on the severity.
 
ScotRef said:
@Degnann
A little late on this thread, however in most Scottish youth leagues governed under the SYFA the named first-aider has to remain at the side of the park at all times. If you decide to dismiss him he must be seperated from the rest of the touchline and only called upon when required (e.g injuries). You then report this in the match report. If he keeps giving you hassle then you can either add an aditional report or abandon the game, depending on the severity.
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IMHO, this is is a poor model. I'd make the rule that if that means there isn't someone qualified for that role, the game is over. That would do more to encourage appropriate behavior.
 
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