A&H

GK decision

WilliamD

Well-Known Member
Level 4 Referee
GK saves the ball by catching it in his stomache area, drops it relatively quickly to his feet, dribbles a bit, picks it up and throws it to one of his players. Decision?
 
The Referee Store
If he definitely caught it, rather than parried it, then IDFK from the place he handled it a second time.
 
Ya this is the thing - save vs control. Happened in my match today it was a save but it lasted quite long. Definitely not parried to his feet. Then dribbled and picked it up. I gave the IDFK.

My judgement was that although it was a save he had it well under control.

I don’t have to tell you it took me a minute to try to explain the law to the GK and his teammates.
 
I feel like everyone is missing the word 'catch' in the OP. A catch isn't a save (by save, we're talking about ones where we can't really blame the keeper for not controlling it). A catch is clearly under control.
I think this is area 49586 where the LOTG need to be better written. Save...parry...control....wtf are FIFA on about? They need to clarify these terms.
I think by save they're taking about putting your hands in front of the ball to stop a hard shot and not seeking to control it.....although if it's a soft shot and the keeper has clearly just batted it down it could still be control....aargh!!

At least this is an easy one. Keeper caught the ball. I don't see any leeway here. @Sheffields Finest and @Big Cat , how are you arguing that it's okay for a keeper to catch the ball, release it, then handle it again?

If the keeper never really caught it properly....ie was sort of between the stomach and forearms for a moment before slipping out, he might get away with it. But if he's had it wrapped up in his hands/arms, and just decided to drop it. Well, this sounds like an extremely simple decision.
 
I feel like everyone is missing the word 'catch' in the OP. A catch isn't a save (by save, we're talking about ones where we can't really blame the keeper for not controlling it). A catch is clearly under control.
I think this is area 49586 where the LOTG need to be better written. Save...parry...control....wtf are FIFA on about? They need to clarify these terms.
I think by save they're taking about putting your hands in front of the ball to stop a hard shot and not seeking to control it.....although if it's a soft shot and the keeper has clearly just batted it down it could still be control....aargh!!

At least this is an easy one. Keeper caught the ball. I don't see any leeway here. @Sheffields Finest and @Big Cat , how are you arguing that it's okay for a keeper to catch the ball, release it, then handle it again?

If the keeper never really caught it properly....ie was sort of between the stomach and forearms for a moment before slipping out, he might get away with it. But if he's had it wrapped up in his hands/arms, and just decided to drop it. Well, this sounds like an extremely simple decision.
We'd have to see the incident really. Just saying that as a save was involved, i'd be leaning towards favouring the keeper, but IDFK would be correct, if there was indeed a catch and good control of the ball
Sounds like @WilliamD got the decision right
 
The law was made clear on this in the 18-19 changes:

1536456700400.png

He controlled it between his hands and body. The exception for save is when there is a rebound after the save. In the OP there is no rebound after the save (dropping it quickly is not a rebound) so the 'except' clause does not apply.

EDIT: Noticed the law uses "or" save. In either case save is defined as the stop action in the glossary. In the OP for me, the save action was complete and was followed by control action.
 
Last edited:
We'd have to see the incident really. Just saying that as a save was involved, i'd be leaning towards favouring the keeper, but IDFK would be correct, if there was indeed a catch and good control of the ball
Sounds like @WilliamD got the decision right
A catch can't possibly be a 'save' in the context of what the LOTG is referring to. Let's not get too hung up on the word save and consider the rest of the post.

After all, goalkeepers are always described as having saved when they catch the ball headed for goal. Only FIFA could manage to be so idiotic with their terminology that it doesn't make sense. FIFA/IFAB are talking about something uncontrollable (versus a controllable 'parry'.......another word they've failed to define).

Colloquially, the keeper saved it. FIFA apparently want it described as 'the keeper caught a goalbound ball before it entered the goal'.
 
Here we go again @santa sangria ;)

We had a whole thread and long debate following the FA Cup and got clarifications from Mr Elleray on is one.

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/chelsea-v-united.11722/

This is from the changes due this year, as I said. Read the explanation and you'll see why I think this is a simple, no offence, decision:

LAW 12 – FOULS AND MISCONDUCT
2. Indirect free kick
Amended text
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when:
• the ball is between (…) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if it
rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the… (…)
Explanation
Goalkeepers often unsuccessfully attempt to catch/hold/stop or ‘parry’ the ball but as this is
a ‘deliberate’ touch with the hand(s) they have technically controlled the ball so cannot pick
it up. This is not the Law’s intention and is not enforced; removal of ‘accidentally’ clarifies
the Law.

This was the change this year to remove the word accidentally.
The ifab circular said:
"If the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper this does not prevent the goalkeeper handling the ball a second time even if the first attempt to catch/holds the ball was deliberate"

My view was at the time, and still is, that the keeper can use their hand to control the ball e.g. to take any momentum out of it or prevent a corner but cannot have been in control and released it and then pick it up again and there is a subtle difference so you need to decide which side of the coin you're on.

The ifab reply was posted in another thread an I cant be bothered looking for it but it clarified my thinking as above.
 
GK saves the ball by catching it in his stomache area, drops it relatively quickly to his feet, dribbles a bit, picks it up and throws it to one of his players. Decision?
So are you saying he had it under control and made a decision to release it, or just fumbled it as soon as he caught it
 
Here we go again @santa sangria ;)

We had a whole thread and long debate following the FA Cup and got clarifications from Mr Elleray on is one.

https://www.refchat.co.uk/threads/chelsea-v-united.11722/



This was the change this year to remove the word accidentally.
The ifab circular said:
"If the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper this does not prevent the goalkeeper handling the ball a second time even if the first attempt to catch/holds the ball was deliberate"

My view was at the time, and still is, that the keeper can use their hand to control the ball e.g. to take any momentum out of it or prevent a corner but cannot have been in control and released it and then pick it up again and there is a subtle difference so you need to decide which side of the coin you're on.

The ifab reply was posted in another thread an I cant be bothered looking for it but it clarified my thinking as above.
:) Ha! But I still think Courtois was IDFK even with the new guidance!
 
Back
Top