RefSix

Goal keepers and sin bins.

RefJef

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
On the line today, and a keeper “nearly” talked himself into a sin binning.

He didn’t, but it did prompt a question from a coach after the game:

If a keeper is sin binned, you can’t bring on a substitute keeper until the ball next goes out of play. I.e., outfield player puts on keepers shirt and goes in goal, but no sub can be made straight away.

Not sure this is right? Play must already be stopped for a sin binning to happen (or play stops because of the dissent) so surely a sub can happen (as long as the ref is asked etc)?

The more I think about it, I suspect that this may be a coach myth, but want to check ...
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Yeah, sin bin takes place at a stoppage in play. Play can’t resume until there’s a keeper
 

afronaut81

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
A team has to have a goalie on the pitch. If you've binned the gk then this will naturally be a stoppage in play. So they either put an outfield player in goal or you can allow a sub. It's entirely in your control to allow this.

I think they are mixing it up with the slightly tricky bit which is actually the gk's return following the sin bin. If they return whilst the ball is in play (perfectly allowable) then they cannot resume gk duties until a stoppage in play ie they must initially come on the FOP as an outfield player
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
Level 7 Referee
Great post, I hadn’t thought of this scenario! I’ve carded many a gobby keeper, some from 80 yards away! 🤠
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
I think the confusion is that the sin bin law forbids a binned player (including keeper) to be substituted. Given that the keeper is binned, he can not be substituted. In reality, if you bring another goal keeper in, in the binning stoppage or the next, the 'new keeper' is the substitute for an outfield player. So to start with he is not a 'new keeper' but a new outfield player. Once he is on the field then makes himself the designated keeper.

To make this simpler to understand, a sent off keeper (or player) can not be substituted either. But often, as soon as a keeper is sent off, the reserve keeper comes on as a substitute, but after an outfield player is substituted off.
 

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
A team has to have a goalie on the pitch. If you've binned the gk then this will naturally be a stoppage in play. So they either put an outfield player in goal or you can allow a sub. It's entirely in your control to allow this.

I think they are mixing it up with the slightly tricky bit which is actually the gk's return following the sin bin. If they return whilst the ball is in play (perfectly allowable) then they cannot resume gk duties until a stoppage in play ie they must initially come on the FOP as an outfield player
wearing the appropriate kit - so if a new goal keeper has ben substituted on, then the returning player should have the same shirt, shorts and socks to return the game!

Remember, there will be different situations where you have "return substitutes" to normal substitute rules.
 

Gamespoiler

Member
Level 7 Referee
This was discussed at our local referee meeting, the advice was clear. If the GK is sin-binned, a substitution cannot take place at that point. Outfeild player must replace him, a sub takes place next time there is a stoppage.
 

Mintyref

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
This was discussed at our local referee meeting, the advice was clear. If the GK is sin-binned, a substitution cannot take place at that point. Outfeild player must replace him, a sub takes place next time there is a stoppage.
Where is that in the bible.......not sure there's a justification for this
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
This was discussed at our local referee meeting, the advice was clear. If the GK is sin-binned, a substitution cannot take place at that point. Outfeild player must replace him, a sub takes place next time there is a stoppage.
Which is contrary to what the LOTG allows.

EDIT: Minty stole my thunder :)
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
This was discussed at our local referee meeting, the advice was clear. If the GK is sin-binned, a substitution cannot take place at that point. Outfeild player must replace him, a sub takes place next time there is a stoppage.
That surely has no basis in law? When you sin bin him, there already is a stoppage in play.
 

afronaut81

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
This was discussed at our local referee meeting, the advice was clear. If the GK is sin-binned, a substitution cannot take place at that point. Outfeild player must replace him, a sub takes place next time there is a stoppage.
Hmmm I see this risking drawing too much attention and taking up time to the process. If you don't allow a sub then an outfield player needs to don the gloves and jersey etc and become the keeper. Then at the next stoppage in play a sub is made and they next don the gloves and jersey. Then when the gk returns there is a third change.

Seems an odd option when there is nothing in the LotG nor instruction from the FA on this
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
A bit worrying if bad advice is being given out to referees. Think about this logically, if a keeper is sin binned then technically an outfield player has to go in goal, that is a given as there is no longer a keeper on the pitch. But the sin bin can only happen at a stoppage in play, so equally there is nothing to stop that team replacing an outfield player with a sub keeper at that time.

The real issue is that once the 10 minutes is up the binned keeper can come back on but he can't change places with the keeper until the ball is out of play. I wouldn't really care about his shorts or socks, but if a keeper comes back on after a sin bin as an outfield player he obviously has to be wearing the correct outfield shirt.

And this is the other nuance with this. At grass roots all leagues in England have repeated subs so can put a sub keeper on temporarily and then bring the outfield player back on after the sin bin has finished, but of course you would be hard pushed to find a grass roots club that has a sub keeper. Whereas at supply league, where sin bins operate and most teams will have a backup keeper on the bench, but there are no repeated subs, if the keeper gets binned they will either have to go with an outfield player in goal for 10 minutes or put the sub keeper on knowing that can't be changed later.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
Here is another issue if is you don't allow substitutions at a sin bin stoppage.

No subs in game so far. Two team mates collide and injured. During or before next stoppage (hopefully play stopped by referee quickly) the keeper dissents and is binned. Also both inured players are unable to continue. If done correctly, the team should be able to continue playing with 1 player short after substitutions. If done incorrectly, the team will have to continue playing 3 players short until the next stoppage, however long that may be.
 

Justylove

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I lined for a referee that said that if the GK gets sin binned, then he's only coming in at a stoppage in play "as per the laws of the game"
 
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