A&H

Goalkeeper throws ball at oppositon player.

T

TopCat

Active Member
Level 7 Referee
Hi. Bit rusty, as 3rd game of the season this morning,after not reffing last season much at all.
Ball goes through to goalkeeper, striker chasing, goalkeeper catches, minor collision due to momentum but keeper has the ball. Didnt have the best view if I'm honest but seemed minor happens all the time. Keeper still has the ball. Gets up, throws the ball at players head from 3 or 4 yards hard and connects, this is all inside penalty area. I blow whistle straight away. Send keeper off for violent conduct. Feel like I may have made a mistake at this point (I know you could say may have made mistake with not giving free kick to keeper prior to this also) I then gave indirect freekick to the team who had the player who had ball thrown at him. Should this have actually been a penalty as the ball was 'live'? Felt a bit ott for a daft act of madness from keeper for both and actually both teams were fine with the idfk. Feel in hindsight probably should have been a pen.
 
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If its a red , its a pen, but think you realise that now TC. Its a lot easier reffing games at a keyboard!

Another example of where players ignorance of the laws has helped you out here!

I did my first middle for ages a few weeks ago - didn't have a major error ( I don't think!) but at the start of 2nd half I couldn't concentrate for love nor money - not always appreciated by everyone else but we DO get better the more games we do - both in number and space between them!

On to the next one.
 
Oh absolutley. Certainly not easy. This was a church league game as well! Gave 2 yellows out separate to that one for persistent fouling and one for ungentlemanly conduct. No such thing as an easy game!
 
It can't have been IFK whatever way you look at it.

I had a similar one last season. But the keeper then recklessly pushed the striker to the ground with the. All still in his hands. I stoped play and deescalate. Now I am going to make sure no surprises or confusion about the decision. I call both captains keeper and striker in and explain "the push by the keeper was reckless and it will be a caution. The charge by striker was careless and happens first, no advantage from it, so it will be the keeper's DFK restart. No more silly stuff." They all accept it and on we go.

In your case it will be red card to keeper. I understand you didn't want to give a pen because the initial charge. Why not give the DFK to the keeper's team.
 
one said:
It can't have been IFK whatever way you look at it.

I had a similar one last season. But the keeper then recklessly pushed the striker to the ground with the. All still in his hands. I stoped play and deescalate. Now I am going to make sure no surprises or confusion about the decision. I call both captains keeper and striker in and explain "the push by the keeper was reckless and it will be a caution. The charge by striker was careless and happens first, no advantage from it, so it will be the keeper's DFK restart. No more silly stuff." They all accept it and on we go.

In your case it will be red card to keeper. I understand you didn't want to give a pen because the initial charge. Why not give the DFK to the keeper's team.
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Yes the free kick to the keepers team would have been the most sensible option in fairness. I don't actually know where I got the idea of a indirect free kick from in that instance to be honest. Guess it's that decision making under pressure bit isn't it. I had a number of players in my face as soon as it happened as the keeper threw the ball at the player, I whistled, they put the ball in the net. They were screaming for the goal to be given which obviously it couldn't as I had whistled (wasnt to know when I whistled that would be the outcome wasnt that obvious at the time it was all at one side of the area not directly in the centre of goal or that close) which probably didn't help. Moved them all out of the way gave the card and then thought now what but obviously came to wrong conclusion. Oh well learn from it and move on.
 
If you've blown up and find yourself panicking realising youve made a mistake then there's always a reason why a defensive restart is the way to go however wrong you may be in law (and at Church League level (Sheffield?), the players won't know. Perhaps give the foul for the original foul on the keeper and tell the 2 players that theres two ways of dealing with this. Shake hands (fist bump) and you'll keep the cards in your pocket and start with a defensive free kick or "I'll get the cards put for you both". Never had a scenario yet where they don't just get on with the decision after that as neither wants the card and the fine.

A church league outcome for a church league match maybe, but its far better than the red and the IDFK imo. Why make it tough for yourself if you can avoid it.
 
TopCat said:
Oh absolutley. Certainly not easy. This was a church league game as well! Gave 2 yellows out separate to that one for persistent fouling and one for ungentlemanly conduct. No such thing as an easy game!
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If they get sin binned, do they say "Forgive me ref, for I have sinned"?

Sounds like it should have been a penalty, but what was the GK doing?! What a muppet.
 
SurreyWolves said:
If they get sin binned, do they say "Forgive me ref, for I have sinned"?

Sounds like it should have been a penalty, but what was the GK doing?! What a muppet.
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To be fair I was expecting dad's and lads sort of stuff but it's nothing like it. Proper league ie on fa site and have a ref sec and all that. Pretty industrial language in game and gave out couple of yellows one for either side separate to the main incident partly to try and calm it down a bit. Think a core of them are church people and fair few others are friends etc more there for the game
 
TopCat said:
Hi. Bit rusty, as 3rd game of the season this morning,after not reffing last season much at all.
Ball goes through to goalkeeper, striker chasing, goalkeeper catches, minor collision due to momentum but keeper has the ball. Didnt have the best view if I'm honest but seemed minor happens all the time. Keeper still has the ball. Gets up, throws the ball at players head from 3 or 4 yards hard and connects, this is all inside penalty area. I blow whistle straight away. Send keeper off for violent conduct. Feel like I may have made a mistake at this point (I know you could say may have made mistake with not giving free kick to keeper prior to this also) I then gave indirect freekick to the team who had the player who had ball thrown at him. Should this have actually been a penalty as the ball was 'live'? Felt a bit ott for a daft act of madness from keeper for both and actually both teams were fine with the idfk. Feel in hindsight probably should have been a pen.
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@TopCat The PK, IFK, yellow card, red card consideration is less controversial than your choice of Forum Name!
Not impressed 🐈‍
 
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TopCat said:
To be fair I was expecting dad's and lads sort of stuff but it's nothing like it. Proper league ie on fa site and have a ref sec and all that. Pretty industrial language in game and gave out couple of yellows one for either side separate to the main incident partly to try and calm it down a bit. Think a core of them are church people and fair few others are friends etc more there for the game
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There are quite a few church leagues in amateur football. These tend to be well established and long standing leagues which were set up as Church Leagues (usually find that participant teams have to be within so many miles of a city centre church). Most if not all the teams that compete have nothing to do with any churches now from what I've seen.
 
TopCat said:
To be fair I was expecting dad's and lads sort of stuff but it's nothing like it. Proper league ie on fa site and have a ref sec and all that. Pretty industrial language in game and gave out couple of yellows one for either side separate to the main incident partly to try and calm it down a bit. Think a core of them are church people and fair few others are friends etc more there for the game
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I used to ref in West Mids Christian League. Same thing - they were very strict on swearing (league rules - any swearing (even if in frustration) = RC!) - The players actually liked it as it meant their kids could watch etc... But on the whole nothing changed !
 
Church Leagues and their players, would likely banish any notion of a God if they were ill-fated enough to get me as ref 😨
 
Ben448844 said:
If you've blown up and find yourself panicking realising youve made a mistake then there's always a reason why a defensive restart is the way to go however wrong you may be in law (and at Church League level (Sheffield?), the players won't know. Perhaps give the foul for the original foul on the keeper and tell the 2 players that theres two ways of dealing with this. Shake hands (fist bump) and you'll keep the cards in your pocket and start with a defensive free kick or "I'll get the cards put for you both". Never had a scenario yet where they don't just get on with the decision after that as neither wants the card and the fine.

A church league outcome for a church league match maybe, but its far better than the red and the IDFK imo. Why make it tough for yourself if you can avoid it.
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Gotta disagree on the play as described. In the OP, the GK threw the ball at the head of an opponent from close by. There are times to keep the cards in the pocket, butt hat isn’t one of them. That has to be a send off.

@TopCat something to consider on these is could you have prevented it. When someone is going at th GK, I find it a good time to close down the space, be Beverly aware of what the attacker does, and(when appropriate) use my voice to encourage players not to do something stupid. Perhaps in part because I was a GK, I tend to be quick with the whistle on ,easing with GKs (I also know some of the ways GKs retaliate, and don’t want to see it). No one objects to refs protecting GKs.
 
socal lurker said:
Gotta disagree on the play as described. In the OP, the GK threw the ball at the head of an opponent from close by. There are times to keep the cards in the pocket, butt hat isn’t one of them. That has to be a send off.

@TopCat something to consider on these is could you have prevented it. When someone is going at th GK, I find it a good time to close down the space, be Beverly aware of what the attacker does, and(when appropriate) use my voice to encourage players not to do something stupid. Perhaps in part because I was a GK, I tend to be quick with the whistle on ,easing with GKs (I also know some of the ways GKs retaliate, and don’t want to see it). No one objects to refs protecting GKs.
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One of those YHYBT things. If he's just flicked it at his head it's very different (yellow) than if he's launched it into his face as hard as he can (red).
 
TopCat said:
Hi. Bit rusty, as 3rd game of the season this morning,after not reffing last season much at all.
Ball goes through to goalkeeper, striker chasing, goalkeeper catches, minor collision due to momentum but keeper has the ball. Didnt have the best view if I'm honest but seemed minor happens all the time. Keeper still has the ball. Gets up, throws the ball at players head from 3 or 4 yards hard and connects, this is all inside penalty area. I blow whistle straight away. Send keeper off for violent conduct. Feel like I may have made a mistake at this point (I know you could say may have made mistake with not giving free kick to keeper prior to this also) I then gave indirect freekick to the team who had the player who had ball thrown at him. Should this have actually been a penalty as the ball was 'live'? Felt a bit ott for a daft act of madness from keeper for both and actually both teams were fine with the idfk. Feel in hindsight probably should have been a pen.
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I've had a similar thing in a match before. I gave the foul against the defender for the collision and sent the GK off for violence conduct. The decision was not contested. Had it been contested, the answer is that there was a foul which occurred before the misconduct which is what the free kick is for and then the misconduct occurred so that's what the red is for. The first offense is punished with a free kick, the second offense is punished with a booking. Simple.
 
Arbiter said:
I've had a similar thing in a match before. I gave the foul against the defender for the collision and sent the GK off for violence conduct. The decision was not contested. Had it been contested, the answer is that there was a foul which occurred before the misconduct which is what the free kick is for and then the misconduct occurred so that's what the red is for. The first offense is punished with a free kick, the second offense is punished with a booking. Simple.
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I assume the last word of your penultimate sentence was supposed to be "sending off"? If so, I agree 100% with this approach - there was a minor foul that you were planning to ignore/play advantage on because the GK kept possession, but there's nothing wrong with going back and giving that foul if the game doesn't proceed as you were expecting it to.
 
GraemeS said:
I assume the last word of your penultimate sentence was supposed to be "sending off"? If so, I agree 100% with this approach - there was a minor foul that you were planning to ignore/play advantage on because the GK kept possession, but there's nothing wrong with going back and giving that foul if the game doesn't proceed as you were expecting it to.
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Yes, it is supposed to be "sending off." This is what happens when you try to spam out messages while at work 🤣
 
Yes I agree that would have been the best option having seen the responses on here and thought it through further
 
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