A&H

Grimsby player retrospective punishment

Ciley Myrus

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
As per BBC report, a Elliott Whitehouse found guilty of calling an opponent ' a pikey' and fined and six match ban
Opposing player told ref at the time
It might be a regional thing but if am referee, and standing next to the players, and clearly hearing this, am sorry but I have never heard that term, far less aware of the meaning as reported on the site, and I would not be dismissing the player for foul abusive etc
Would anybody else have sent the guy off? For saying that to opponent?
what if it was said to you as referee?
Reminds me of one time I did some game in another part of country and some player shouted something at me, along lines of, " fcuk off ref you neeb",
Pretty sure it sounds insulting but i dont even know if i heard him right, far less know what it meant, first chance i got near to him, i simply told him, if you are big enough to insult me, please be big enough to do it in a language i can understand

course nothing to do with us as ref but six games seems severe to me, given he would have got, one game had he been sent off at time ( course any tribunal permitting)
and we looking to give a 2? game retrospective ban for confirmed simulation..
 
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It's a prejudicial term used offensively against the travelling community. I assume traveller heritage would be a protected characteristic under the equality act so would be treat very seriously by a governing body.
Essentially to call some one a pikey is racist so given similar punishments handed out in the EFL the punishment fits the crime I would say
 
JamesL said:
It's a prejudicial term used offensively against the travelling community. I assume traveller heritage would be a protected characteristic under the equality act so would be treat very seriously by a governing body.
Essentially to call some one a pikey is racist so given similar punishments handed out in the EFL the punishment fits the crime I would say
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I have, until I read the report this morning, never heard that word, far less what it means?
My over riding point to the post is, what someone might deem offensive, someone else might not, and, in this case for me, have no idea what it meant anyway
Would you have sent him off, had you clearly heard it?

am imagining a bizarre situation in my head where I had heard this, the other player knows i have heard it, with me standing there going, ' sorry you might find that offensive but i honestly have never heard that word, far less know what it means" so i can hardly send the guy off on the opponents say so, awkward,
 
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Ciley Myrus said:
I have, until I read the report this morning, never heard that word, far less what it means?
My over riding point to the post is, what someone might deem offensive, someone else might not, and, in this case for me, have no idea what it meant anyway
Would you have sent him off, had you clearly heard it?

am imagining a bizarre situation in my head where I had heard this, the other player knows i have heard it, with me standing there going, ' sorry you might find that offensive but i honestly have never heard that word, far less know what it means" so i can hardly send the guy off on the opponents say so, awkward,
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Ignorance doesn't cut it unfortunately.
If someone uses a derogatory term against a section of society then it needs to be dealt with. Either by the match day referee, or by the authorities retrospectively.
I think an official who says they heard it but didn't understand it, might find themselves on an equality course.
There will be few people who don't understand the term given its frequency of use in Guy Ritchie film, Snatch so I would like to think that most would recognise the term for what it was. Whether they could then attach that to what it is I am unsure. Obviously the prejudice towards the traveller community is not as well publicised as other forms, so I can see how their might be some misinterpretations.
 
JamesL said:
Ignorance doesn't cut it unfortunately.
If someone uses a derogatory term against a section of society then it needs to be dealt with. Either by the match day referee, or by the authorities retrospectively.
I think an official who says they heard it but didn't understand it, might find themselves on an equality course.
There will be few people who don't understand the term given its frequency of use in Guy Ritchie film, Snatch so I would like to think that most would recognise the term for what it was. Whether they could then attach that to what it is I am unsure. Obviously the prejudice towards the traveller community is not as well publicised as other forms, so I can see how their might be some misinterpretations.
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i think it would totally depend on the term tbh. i'm pretty surprised you've not heard that term tbh ciley as i 'd say it's very common but you cant be expected to know or understand every derogatory term under the sun!
 
JamesL said:
Ignorance doesn't cut it unfortunately.
If someone uses a derogatory term against a section of society then it needs to be dealt with. Either by the match day referee, or by the authorities retrospectively.
I think an official who says they heard it but didn't understand it, might find themselves on an equality course.
There will be few people who don't understand the term given its frequency of use in Guy Ritchie film, Snatch so I would like to think that most would recognise the term for what it was. Whether they could then attach that to what it is I am unsure. Obviously the prejudice towards the traveller community is not as well publicised as other forms, so I can see how their might be some misinterpretations.
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Total nonsense.
you are in effect saying a referee is 'ignorant' because they are unaware of a certain term?
i think thats the most ridiculous thing I have seen posted on here, and thats saying something.
The answer below is far more sensible, report it retrospectively
By your explination, we need to be know every potential slur or insult.
And no, I have never heard of Snatch, far less seen it.
 
es1 said:
i think it would totally depend on the term tbh. i'm pretty surprised you've not heard that term tbh ciley as i 'd say it's very common but you cant be expected to know or understand every derogatory term under the sun!
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Must be regional as my partner, and a random female colleague who happens to be online so i asked her, have no idea.

suppose its equal to some choice religious phrases in Glasgow.

gypsy, hippy, yes. Pikey, nope, no idea, until now. Guess that means I need an equality course.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Must be regional as my partner, and a random female colleague who happens to be online so i asked her, have no idea.

suppose its equal to some choice religious phrases in Glasgow.
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i suspect you're spot on with that. i wouldnt really know any Scottish religious slurs or terms

i have encountered a player using offensive terms that they claimed they didn't realise were offensive, just his luck that they were offensive to my background so he walked with a 5 match ban from the CFA
 
es1 said:
i suspect you're spot on with that. i wouldnt really know any Scottish religious slurs or terms

i have encountered a player using offensive terms that they claimed they didn't realise were offensive, just his luck that they were offensive to my background so he walked with a 5 match ban from the CFA
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Yes, its ridiculous to suggest a referee should be aware of every offensive term, esp cos its in a film
Your response is probably the correct one, i would have had to defuse things, and report it to higher powers and let them deal with it.

i did have one last ( this!) season where player was told to 'Get up dawl' after a defender tackled him, he got irate as to him, being called 'dawl' inferred he was female. 'Dawl' is Glasgow for, doll/hen/darling to someone down south.
Am hard pushed to find the offence in that, and no, i did not report it.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Total nonsense.
you are in effect saying a referee is 'ignorant' because they are unaware of a certain term?
i think thats the most ridiculous thing I have seen posted on here, and thats saying something.
The answer below is far more sensible, report it retrospectively
By your explination, we need to be know every potential slur or insult.
And no, I have never heard of Snatch, far less seen it.
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Thats not what I said though is it?
1) you don't know what the term means but are suggesting a reduced sentence in your OP? "2 matches seems harsh for this word I have never heard." That my friend is ignorance, you haven't heard it before or don't understand its meaning so the ban must be too harsh - wrong! You report it to someone who does know and is able to identify the offence and let them determine the punishment, if any is required.
2) I didn't actually say you needed to know every slur, what I said was it needs to be dealt with, be that the match Official OR the governing body.
3) again what I said was most people, not you specifically will have seen the film I referenced. It's hardly an unknown film that I have plucked from obscurity, be that it might be to you hence why I didn't say everyone has seen it.
 
es1 said:
i have encountered a player using offensive terms that they claimed they didn't realise were offensive, just his luck that they were offensive to my background so he walked with a 5 match ban from the CFA
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Exactly why mwhen I say ignorance doesn't cut it.
If you commit an offence, not knowing is never a justifiable defence.
For example if you steal something, and you defence is I did not know it was illegal to steal then you will be found guilty.
Just as using hurty words, you didn't know were hurty, you would still be guilty of the offence.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Yes, its ridiculous to suggest a referee should be aware of every offensive term, esp cos its in a film
Your response is probably the correct one, i would have had to defuse things, and report it to higher powers and let them deal with it.

i did have one last ( this!) season where player was told to 'Get up dawl' after a defender tackled him, he got irate as to him, being called 'dawl' inferred he was female. 'Dawl' is Glasgow for, doll/hen/darling to someone down south.
Am hard pushed to find the offence in that, and no, i did not report it.
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on es1 scale of offensive terms and phrases it scores 1/10. i'd not be doing anything about it either.

i've also never seen snatch though i have heard of it!
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Total nonsense.
you are in effect saying a referee is 'ignorant' because they are unaware of a certain term?
i think thats the most ridiculous thing I have seen posted on here, and thats saying something.
The answer below is far more sensible, report it retrospectively
By your explination, we need to be know every potential slur or insult.
And no, I have never heard of Snatch, far less seen it.
Click to expand...

You ain't never heard of it cos you're a daft sweaty ... :D
 
JamesL said:
Thats not what I said though is it?
1) you don't know what the term means but are suggesting a reduced sentence in your OP? "2 matches seems harsh for this word I have never heard." That my friend is ignorance, you haven't heard it before or don't understand its meaning so the ban must be too harsh - wrong! You report it to someone who does know and is able to identify the offence and let them determine the punishment, if any is required.
2) I didn't actually say you needed to know every slur, what I said was it needs to be dealt with, be that the match Official OR the governing body.
3) again what I said was most people, not you specifically will have seen the film I referenced. It's hardly an unknown film that I have plucked from obscurity, be that it might be to you hence why I didn't say everyone has seen it.
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So you suggesting six games for everything offensive?
Do you manage past six minutes in your own game?
I far rather see a diver ( cheat) banned for six games, and, that was more my point
We are not bastions of society who are on the park as social judges
Wearing the referee badge does not elevate us to some kind of political adjudicator
 
Ok, it appears to be. Not a racial slur. But, a term to describe anyone who lives in a caravan or shares same views as the travelling community

Clearly i need an equality course because there is a ' hippy bstrd' in nearly every game I have ever taken part in!
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Ok, it appears to be. Not a racial slur. But, a term to describe anyone who lives in a caravan or shares same views as the travelling community

Clearly i need an equality course because there is a ' hippy bstrd' in nearly every game I have ever taken part in!
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it's definitely a discriminatory term though, against a specific section of society
 
es1 said:
it's definitely a discriminatory term though, against a specific section of society
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Fingers crossed i never hear it, as there is now proof I have knowledge of what it means, so i cant claim ignorance.
Every days a school day...

i still rather see a cheat punished heavy than this, the message seems to be, cheat the sport, have a wee ban.
Say something offensive, miss two months.

hopefully i never see a "traveller"striker dive in the box and the defender calls him this 'pikey' thing,
Yellow card for the cheating and red card to defender fir the name calling
Sounds fair...
 
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