RefSix

Handball creating goal scoring opportunity...

AlexF

RefChat Addict
#1
For those who didn't see it, in the 70th minute of last night's Copa America match between Colombia and Chile, there was a handball incident in the penalty area that created a goal scoring opportunity (heck, an outright goal!) -- this is a good example of a handball call that would be called against an attacking player under the 19/20 Laws but not for a defending player.

https://streamable.com/d4fk6
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#7
Not under the new laws, if the ball hits an attackers hand and leads to a goal or goal scoring chance it must always be called regardless of hand position or intent.
I know, its absolutely crackers, the worlds gone mad, stupid rule change!!! What next, tag football!!
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#8
I know, its absolutely crackers, the worlds gone mad, stupid rule change!!! What next, tag football!!
Don't agree, it was inconsistent before as some referees penalised this as allowing someone to score or create a goal with their hands or arms isn't in the spirit of the game. This should make it consistent, and consistency is want everyone wants.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#11
People definitely want consistency. They want calls to be consistently in favor of their team.
Football people want fair, not just pot luck
Consistency won't be achieved anyway, as there'll be different secret interpretations dependant on country of residence etc
It would be too much to ask to have a few words in a book that could be stuck to... as the PGMOL attempted to do with the old HB Law
The ROTW caused the inconsistency, now they've won us over with the added complexity of 'deliberate' being a function of where on the FOP the ball to hand occurs :poop:
Too many contributors sat round a table imo. Happens all the time in every work place everywhere
 
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AlexF

RefChat Addict
#12
now they've won us over with the added complexity of 'deliberate' being a function of where on the FOP the ball to hand occurs
Uh... not at all.

A "deliberate" action to handle the ball is a small part of the new handball wording (which again, as we've discussed repeatedly, has essentially been the interpretation used everywhere except in parts of the UK). The "where on the FOP" part? That's for stuff that isn't necessarily deliberate.

There's a reason that the offence is no longer called "deliberate handling" and is now called simply "handball".
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#13
Uh... not at all.

A "deliberate" action to handle the ball is a small part of the new handball wording (which again, as we've discussed repeatedly, has essentially been the interpretation used everywhere except in parts of the UK). The "where on the FOP" part? That's for stuff that isn't necessarily deliberate.

There's a reason that the offence is no longer called "deliberate handling" and is now called simply "handball".
Apparently the UK were the only Nation to be outraged by the HB PK in the World Cup Final. The UK were therefore the only country (countries) applying the old LOTG as they were stated at the time, instead of applying the new Law ahead of their time. Go figure...
The new Law is less clear (to players, spectators etc) than the old wording. Usually, when basic principals are made more complicated, cause and effect lose their relationship and the outcome becomes less consistent. Only going back to basic wording ('avoidable' being my chosen word) reverses this direction of travel (something i have no faith in IFAB appreciating)
 

one

RefChat Addict
#14
People definitely want consistency. They want calls to be consistently in favor of their team.
To be fair, the actual calls are very inconsistent. Even with the new laws. WWC one called against Japan for pen in the quarters. There was an almost identical one for Aus that was not called against Norway .

I don't think they will ever get consistancy across the globe on this one no matter what wording they use.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#15
To be fair, the actual calls are very inconsistent. Even with the new laws. WWC one called against Japan for pen in the quarters. There was an almost identical one for Aus that was not called against Norway .

I don't think they will ever get consistancy across the globe on this one no matter what wording they use.

My point was there should now be consistency around goals scored following the ball hitting an attacking player's hands or arms. There is no longer any requirement for the referee to judge intent here, so as long as the referee sees the ball hit the hand or arm it should be penalised every time.

All other handling offences are still likely to be subjective because one referee's judgement of intentional handling or what constitutes unnatural position might be different to another's.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#16
My point was there should now be consistency around goals scored following the ball hitting an attacking player's hands or arms. There is no longer any requirement for the referee to judge intent here, so as long as the referee sees the ball hit the hand or arm it should be penalised every time.

All other handling offences are still likely to be subjective because one referee's judgement of intentional handling or what constitutes unnatural position might be different to another's.
To some degree, we've all been unofficially applying the new Law for years. However, I'm dead against some of the accidental HBs given against defenders for PKs. The philosophy at the front of the book is being lost. Gone are the one set of Laws for all games. Striving to eliminate the 'rub of the green' is only moving us away from the notion of a 'simple game'
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#18
The problem is the ‘goal scoring opportunity’ is again down to interpretation. If it hits an attackers hand accidentally 35 yards out, ball drops to his feet and then he puts it top corner, we then pull that back, whereas if he were to play a sideways pass 2 yards we wouldn’t? Let’s face it, it could hit a right back in the hand in their own half and they play a 40 yard ball over the top to the striker. A player could also receive a ball 40 yards out say from an accidental hand ball, 6 passes later they’ve got a tap in, that handball has technically started off that move.

It should have been all or nothing for me but maybe I’m just being pedantic
 

markref

Active Member
#20
Can't scare seagulls any more. It's the commentators and pundits I'm concerned for. Too much for them to take in
And the trouble is, the players most of us have every week accept what they say as gospel!
A game last season a player hit the ball ten yards outside the opposition penalty area, hitting an opponent a couple of yards away in the side / arm. The player could have easily retrieved the ball, but chose to run to me claiming handball instead. The opponent therefore got the ball and passed it forward to a team mate who did the same. Suddenly the opposition are attacking, but the reason was that the defenders ran past the player running with the ball to also come to me to claim handball!!
The team were claiming that “it’s got to be handball, he gained an advantage! He made himself bigger! He had time to get out of the way!” because that’s what the idiots on the box say!
Now it will be “ he got an attacking opportunity so it’s got to be handball!” when the only reason for the attack was that they forgot football 101 (play to the whistle!) and ignored the ball.
 
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