A&H

Handball?

MatthewC

Member
Red v Yellow.

Red are 2-0 up in a fairly heated game. I missed a few alleged 'late' tackles early on in the game, and so am making an effort to watch out for them. Midway through the 2nd half, yellow striker has a shot on target, whilst red defender is on the ground sliding towards him. I keep my eye on the tackle, defender pulls out, and the shot hits a defender inside the penalty area, to a very loud shout of 'HANDBALL REF!!!!!' Ball goes out of play for a goal kick, and I inform the red players that have surrounded me that I didn't see where the ball struck the defender (as I was looking out for the late challenge) and so cannot award the penalty. By the time the ball had struck the defender and i'd turned around to look at him, both arms were by his side anyway.

10 minutes or so later, red attacker runs down the left wing, and crosses the ball into the penalty area, where the GK, an attacker and a defender are waiting. However, the yellow defender that was tracking the attacker that's crossed the ball slides in to try and block the cross. He's about 8 yards away from the ball, and directly in between the crosser and the attacker that is inside the box. The cross comes in at about chest height, but the defender, whilst sliding in, has left his arm pointing directly up in the air. The ball strikes his hand, and drops directly in front of the defender. I blow and point to the penalty spot. Cue a barrage of yellow defenders screaming that there is no way on earth it could have been deliberate. I inform them that the defenders arm was directly up in the air, away from the body in a completely unnatural position and that he has prevented a promising cross from coming in. 'BUT ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SLIDE WITHOUT HAVING YOUR ARM UP IN THE AIR REF!!!!'After explaining several times, I wave the defenders away, and get on with the penalty. Attacker puts it away.

Overall, I feel like I had a really bad game. I missed things, didn't deal with players well, and got a hell of a lot of abuse for it. I'm in my first season of refereeing, and this is the first game I've really felt this way, but i'm not too concerned. I've had a real think about the things I could have done better, and feel like I've learnt from it. At the time, and even on reflection a few days later, I was really happy with the 2nd penalty decision. I was in a great position to see it, and was satisfied that i'd made the right decision.

However, I logged on to the local league forum a few days later to see if anyone has made any comments about the game, and find one from each side. Yellow player has written a match report that includes 'ref missed a blatant handball for a penalty, only to go and award one that never should have been 10 minutes later.' Red manager comes on underneath and says he completely agrees that I got both decisions wrong. I can understand the Yellow player being unhappy that I awarded the 2nd one, but the Red manager as well?! I heard several players from both teams after the game agreeing that i'd got both decisions wrong, but I can't get my head around it. This guy's arm was STRAIGHT UP in the air. To me, that's a blatant handball, regardless of whether or not he actually meant to handball it. I (perhaps slightly naively) wasn't even expecting any arguments from Red about the decision. But after the forum comments and players comments after the game, I'm starting to wonder.

Is this just a case of players not having a clue, or is my understanding of handball completely off?
 
The Referee Store
Firstly you can only give what you see and are 100% on, so that covers that - correct.

Now, none of us were there, but going on your descriptions ....

Arm by the side / within the shape of the body is different to arm out of position as jumping / sliding / balance, is different to dilberatly putting it in the way and maybe to try and decieve.

The important thing is your consistancy with how you give them.

Was it ball to hand, or hand to ball? Looking at the ball or sliding turning away and going with the flow? was there and deliberate gaining of advantage from it, or did it stop something happening as a result of it?

Many things to consider - if you think you were wrong on one or both, then you can learn for next game; if you think you were right on one or both then pat on the back for yourself as you can sleep with your decision and really, no-one can change what happened can they?
 
I wouldn't have said that he put his arm there in order to deliberately block the cross, but at the same time I wouldn't say that the arm needed to be there. I don't think it's natural for the arm to be straight up in the air whilst sliding.

As for ball to hand/hand to ball, it was six of one, half a dozen of the other. He was looking at the ball - again, wouldn't have said he was TRYING to block the ball with his hand and therefore gain an advantage. It was quick, and he probably didn't have much of a chance to move his hand out of the path of the ball (although his hand wasn't actually in the way at the moment the cross was delivered) but (and this is the basis on which I made the decision) I don't think the hand should have been there in the first place, in the same way you would expect a player not to put his arm directly above his head whilst standing in the penalty area.

Like I said, based entirely on the incidents, I don't know about the first one, because I missed it. But, I'm happy I got the second right. It's the players comments after the game that have made me doubt it. I know it's not going to change anything now, but I'd rather clarify it, as if I did get the second wrong, then it's my understanding and application of the law that's wrong, rather than my judgement at the time. If that makes sense? :)
 
Matthew, from the way you describe the second incident I'd support your penalty decision. Whilst it sounds more ball to hand than hand to ball, I'm with you that it is an unnatural and unnecessary position for the hand to be in.

The only other thought is that there's little to be gained from checking out match reports written and commented on by those whose (lack of) knowledge of the LOTG is often so clearly demonstrated during the 90 minutes!!

Chin up :)
 
Was his arm in the air before the ball was struck?

How close was the distance between the defender and attacker when ball was struck?

Could the defender have moved his arm out of the way?

From what you've described, it sounds like ball to hand.....so no handball.

Your comment about whether he meant to handball are misguided. If he didn't mean it, it's not deliberate and therefore cannot be handball. If you think it was accidental you shouldn't have given the penalty as no offense was committed!
 
@MatthewC - handball is an incredibly difficult thing to judge. The LOTG want us to decide if a player deliberately used hand arm to control the ball? Thanks LOTG. Players seem to think any hand or arm contact is handball. :rolleyes: Means a lot of grey areas at times, lots of interpretations. And everyone else around the pitch has a bias! Sometimes that bias becomes just against the ref as you discovered!

As for the two handball claims coming one after the other? A big Hello the ingrained ironic nature of football! However, the handballs may not be the real issue.

One thing you have possibly failed to identify. The players on both sides sound like they were trying to manipulate you from early on - telling you, you missed bad tackles etc. You don't mention a card count, but players surrounding you for the first penalty claim? The second reaction to the given penalty? Players upping the ante with their behaviour - are you able to manage it with strong body language and strong words or do a couple of players earn a caution? The message you are sending is simple - behave appropriately or I will do something about it. The subliminal message is "I am not going to be manipulated, stop wasting your time"

And finally, never, ever look at team comments on your performance be it on Twitter or wherever. Even if you are the best referee in the world on the day the best you can hope for is no mention whatsoever. :)

Chalk it up to experience. Learn from it. Move onwards and upwards.
 
I disagree about the intent bit there Padfoot, for me it's if the arm is in an unnatural position, which on this occasion it is.

As for the OP, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much - this could go either way and get ten refs together to make the original decision you'd no doubt get 10 different interpretations.

I agree with Russell though, no matter how curious you may be don't search for opinions from the teams afterwards, it will only cast doubt where there was none before. Remember they don't know the LOTG like you do, so take it with a pinch of salt.

If you're confident enough in the decisions you made and they were based on the right application of Law at the time given the circumstances anybody else's opinion doesn't really matter.
 
I disagree about the intent bit there Padfoot, for me it's if the arm is in an unnatural position, which on this occasion it is.

As for the OP, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much - this could go either way and get ten refs together to make the original decision you'd no doubt get 10 different interpretations.

I agree with Russell though, no matter how curious you may be don't search for opinions from the teams afterwards, it will only cast doubt where there was none before. Remember they don't know the LOTG like you do, so take it with a pinch of salt.

If you're confident enough in the decisions you made and they were based on the right application of Law at the time given the circumstances anybody else's opinion doesn't really matter.

You can disagree all you want......it won't make it correct under the LOTG!

Very clear on this.....only deliberate handball is to be penalised, so intent for this offence is very relevant, as without it, there is no offence!
 
Padfoot is correct but the problem is that in the professional game referees are expected to penalise for unnatural position and these are the guys that the meatheads we referee on a Sunday watch, so makes it hard to sell!
 
Going on what I learned over in the US, the handball situation is usually settled with no call. Usually, most "handballs" aren't deliberate and only about 2% are legit handballs. Plus, 6 words my friend, "In the opinion of the referee." It's ultimately your call.

Now as for the reports, don't worry too much about it. If there's like 10 or more, then I'd worry. Usually though, it's just a way to vent, and I've been told by my local unit that if 5 or more reports are legitimately negative, then you have problems coming. But most are just frustrations, so again it's based on wether or not your local FA will notice or not.
 
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