A&H

Harry Kane

M

Matthew

RefChat Addict
https://twitter.com/x/status/1335714577095548930

I’ve seen this being highlighted a fair bit on social media over the last few weeks (a couple of examples in the linked tweet), but it’s something I’ve seen Kane do pretty regularly and something that there’s dozens of examples of.

Knowing that the ball is coming, he looks at his opponent (which is the key bit for me and rules out it being an accidental collision) before backing in and bending down as the opponent jumps, pretty much always flipping the opponent into a cartwheel type motion and is awarded a free kick.

I cannot see how this isn’t a foul by Kane. He knows exactly what he’s doing and it’s a minor miracle that somebody hasn’t picked up a serious injury. It’s only a matter of time before someone breaks their neck and it really annoys me that something that is so dangerous is put down to “clever play”. It’s dangerous play and should be a FK against him as far as I’m concerned.

Interested to know the thoughts of others on this?
 
The Referee Store
Agreed. He got a penalty for it recently which was perplexing.
For me they are all fouls by Kane. Careless at least.
Look at his opponents, eyes on the ball, and then Kane is just charging into them. If that's not careless then I don't know what is. And you are right someone is going to get severely hurt one day
 
it just has to be a foul, there's 4 good examples from the last 18/24 months, each of which could have caused serious injury.

in rugby taking a man in the air is a very serious offence as the player cannot control their landing at all

i think this is definitely a step up from careless and is definitely reckless
 
I've called this in games--I think I am more sensitive than many to it from a basketball background where undercutting can be very dangerous.
 
Non refereeing but not controversial so hopefully allowed.

QPR conceded what all QPR fans considered to be an awful goal to after 3 mins v Huddersfield on Saturday - 'Have you ever seen a defence do THAT?' was among the more polite comments on line and then lo and behold Son scores a spookily identical goal to Huddersfield's first.

Have a look if you have the time , they are remarkably similar!
 
These incidents with Kane are fouls by him every time ...... Kane makes no attempt to play the ball and waits for the contact before going down and then holding his head...I'm surprise officials haven't spotted what he is doing if they review match footage each week. Kane also perfected the 'art' wrapping his leg round a defender as he went to ground, often without the opponent moving, gaining many free kicks and penalties.
 
socal lurker said:
100% disagree (unless I'm picturing this wrong)--he is initiating contact by undercutting an opponent. Contact offenses are always DFK offenses, not PIADM.
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Maybe not quite on this occasion, but I frequently see this particular infringement as PIADM because the culprit is not the one making contact. Rather, the guilty party makes an action (bends over for no reason) which is dangerous for a subsequent legitimate challenge in which the opponent is the one making the contact. So whilst I know the Rule, I'd never given this interpretation a second thought. I think the way I've described the sequence, PIADM is still apt. Or a question of opinion.
 
Big Cat said:
Maybe not quite on this occasion, but I frequently see this particular infringement as PIADM because the culprit is not the one making contact. Rather, the guilty party makes an action (bends over for no reason) which is dangerous for a subsequent legitimate challenge in which the opponent is the one making the contact. So whilst I know the Rule, I'd never given this interpretation a second thought. I think the way I've described the sequence, PIADM is still apt. Or a question of opinion.
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I don't know why you are looking for a way to give a lesser sanction on this. What makes it a foul is that undercutting the opponent, and that undercutting is causing contact. That's a DFK offense, and what I'm calling every time. (In my experience it rarely happens again in a game if it is called once.)

I suppose you could have a scenario where the opponent sees the action and doesn't go up in the air because of it, and for that PIADM could make sense--but I've never seen that happen on a soccer field.
 
socal lurker said:
I don't know why you are looking for a way to give a lesser sanction on this. What makes it a foul is that undercutting the opponent, and that undercutting is causing contact. That's a DFK offense, and what I'm calling every time. (In my experience it rarely happens again in a game if it is called once.)

I suppose you could have a scenario where the opponent sees the action and doesn't go up in the air because of it, and for that PIADM could make sense--but I've never seen that happen on a soccer field.
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Well, whilst nobody could care less what the referee's definition is, there is one thing we never see on a football or soccer field; and that's PIADM. I know this, because we never see a ref's arm in the air for anything other than offside. Increasingly rare
So you're right about one thing, everyone would expect a DFK. I guess you're right on the whole, I'd just never considered I could be wrong on this
 
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Matthew said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1335714577095548930

I’ve seen this being highlighted a fair bit on social media over the last few weeks (a couple of examples in the linked tweet), but it’s something I’ve seen Kane do pretty regularly and something that there’s dozens of examples of.

Knowing that the ball is coming, he looks at his opponent (which is the key bit for me and rules out it being an accidental collision) before backing in and bending down as the opponent jumps, pretty much always flipping the opponent into a cartwheel type motion and is awarded a free kick.

I cannot see how this isn’t a foul by Kane. He knows exactly what he’s doing and it’s a minor miracle that somebody hasn’t picked up a serious injury. It’s only a matter of time before someone breaks their neck and it really annoys me that something that is so dangerous is put down to “clever play”. It’s dangerous play and should be a FK against him as far as I’m concerned.

Interested to know the thoughts of others on this?
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It's both dangerous and clever play. He knows exactly what he's doing and he's getting the decision every single time. He won't stop doing it until referee's stop him from doing it
 
QuaverRef said:
It's both dangerous and clever play. He knows exactly what he's doing and he's getting the decision every single time. He won't stop doing it until referee's stop him from doing it
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I just can't see how the pgmol match day observers aren't picking up on things like this...
I've had this advice in observations in early games ie look out for attackers. Backing into their opponents. So if that's the advice at grassroots how is that not picked up when they can watch the game back as well?
 
JamesL said:
I just can't see how the pgmol match day observers aren't picking up on things like this...
I've had this advice in observations in early games ie look out for attackers. Backing into their opponents. So if that's the advice at grassroots how is that not picked up when they can watch the game back as well?
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I don't know if people have listened to the Peter Crouch podcast but there was an interesting episode with Mike Dean on, and he explained that the refereeing team will sit down the morning before their game, and watch video clips of player traits etc (they highlighted how Kevin Nolan was always on the keeper for corners as an example). In my head, Harry Kane doing this would be exactly the sort of thing they would (or should) be going over
 
QuaverRef said:
I don't know if people have listened to the Peter Crouch podcast but there was an interesting episode with Mike Dean on, and he explained that the refereeing team will sit down the morning before their game, and watch video clips of player traits etc (they highlighted how Kevin Nolan was always on the keeper for corners as an example). In my head, Harry Kane doing this would be exactly the sort of thing they would (or should) be going over
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I don't agree with this practice of judging players before KO
Every game is a clean sheet IMO, otherwise we're biased
 
Big Cat said:
I don't agree with this practice of judging players before KO
Every game is a clean sheet IMO, otherwise we're biased
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Totally agree at our level.
At the professional game it is totally relevant to understand how games will be played and what to look out for.
At our level, teams just play the game as it unfolds, with maybe a little direction on a style of play.
Proffessional have exacting instructions, you see them looking through the dossiers telling the positions they need to be in and when, and what positions they can expect their opponents to be in. At the top that is useful info for a pro ref.
We do it ourselves at level 4, we talk amongst each other, give tips on who and what to look out for with certain teams.
Yes every game starts with a clean slate, but fore-warned is fore-armed and will help dealing with events in a game.
 
JamesL said:
Totally agree at our level.
At the professional game it is totally relevant to understand how games will be played and what to look out for.
At our level, teams just play the game as it unfolds, with maybe a little direction on a style of play.
Proffessional have exacting instructions, you see them looking through the dossiers telling the positions they need to be in and when, and what positions they can expect their opponents to be in. At the top that is useful info for a pro ref.
We do it ourselves at level 4, we talk amongst each other, give tips on who and what to look out for with certain teams.
Yes every game starts with a clean slate, but fore-warned is fore-armed and will help dealing with events in a game.
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Honestly, I prefer to have never met the players and to know nothing whatsoever about them. My favourite appointments are when I have a true clan slate. I can't see that changing for me, although I accept that you and most other people prefer to be tipped off
 
Big Cat said:
I don't agree with this practice of judging players before KO
Every game is a clean sheet IMO, otherwise we're biased
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It has nothing to do with prejudging or being biased. At that level, there is a lot going on in the game. The awareness of trends and habits of teams is a tool to know where to look to be able to judge in the moment. It is not about making a judgment about things in advance. Professional referees do this in all sports--and if they didn't, there would be a lot more missed calls then the are today.

At the level of games I do, it's not necessary.
 
socal lurker said:
It has nothing to do with prejudging or being biased. At that level, there is a lot going on in the game. The awareness of trends and habits of teams is a tool to know where to look to be able to judge in the moment. It is not about making a judgment about things in advance. Professional referees do this in all sports--and if they didn't, there would be a lot more missed calls then the are today.

At the level of games I do, it's not necessary.
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They're not doing it very well IMO
 
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